Filosofa’s Thoughts …

Posted on by under 9/11, Global Issues, History, Political commentary, Social commentary

I haven’t opined on President Biden’s decision to pull U.S. troops out of Afghanistan because I have very mixed thoughts on the subject.  Our presence in Afghanistan for these past two decades has been very costly, both in terms of money and lives.  However … there has never been any doubt that once U.S. troops left, the Taliban would move in swiftly.  We just didn’t realize, I think, how swiftly.

Now, I know this isn’t a topic that is near and dear to most of you at the moment, as we are dealing with our own crises on multiple fronts at the moment:  the pandemic, political chaos, devastating wildfires, racism, and much more.  However, what happens once we leave Afghanistan IS important to us for, I believe, a number of reasons, not the least of which is humanitarianism.

Displaced people in Afghanistan in a makeshift camp

The Taliban has moved in much more quickly than most foreign policy experts expected, and it is now estimated that they control 65% of the country.  A new U.S. military assessment says the national capital, Kabul, could fall to the Taliban in as quickly as a month.  Why should you care?  Two major reasons:

  • The Taliban are brutal terrorists. Already, tens of thousands of ordinary Afghans have had to flee their homes and- hundreds have been killed or injured in recent weeks.  The Taliban are misogynists who will brutalize women.  Their form of justice … well, let me give you an example straight from the horse’s mouth:
    • “In our Sharia it’s clear, for those who have sex and are unmarried, whether it’s a girl or a boy, the punishment is 100 lashes in public. But for anyone who’s married, they have to be stoned to death… For those who steal: if it’s proved, then his hand should be cut off.” – the words of Taliban Judge Haji Badruddin

We claim to be a humanitarian society, to care about people.  Can we care less, or not care at all, simply because the people being brutalized are half a globe away, have different beliefs, and a different skin tone?

  • The second reason you should care is simple. I want you to close your eyes and remember where you were at around 9:00 a.m. on the 11th of September, twenty years ago.  What happened that day was perpetrated by al-Qaeda, who were taught and backed by none other than the Taliban.  It was, in many ways, their hatred for the United States, it was in part retaliation for us spreading our western ways to their very closed society.

Think it can’t happen again?  Oh yes, it can, and my bet is that it will.  The Taliban has even more reason now to hate the U.S. than they had 20 years ago.  My best guess is they are already discussing and planning their revenge for the 20 years we have kept them out of power in Afghanistan.

Make no mistake, I support President Biden’s decision to pull our troops out of Afghanistan, for we could not stay there forever.  But rather my objection is with the timing and implementation.  I think it was done too quickly, rather like ripping the bandage off of a raw wound, and without thought for the future of the people of Afghanistan.  I think we are leaving a country of 39 million people vulnerable and in grave danger.  I do not pretend to be an expert or to know the best way to withdraw from Afghanistan, but I very much fear that the way we have gone about it will have unintended consequences for the people of Afghanistan and ultimately for the people in the U.S.

Taliban members

I was disappointed yesterday to hear President Biden say …

“I do not regret my decision. Afghan leaders have to come together. They’ve got to fight for themselves, fight for their nation.”

It seemed cold, calloused, unfeeling, uncaring for the fate of humans half a globe away.  Ultimately, he isn’t wrong … the bandage must come off, but there may be a safer way of removing it.

59 thoughts on “Filosofa’s Thoughts …”

  1. Pingback: Filosofa’s Thoughts … – Nelsapy

  2. The decision to enter reflects the lack of thinking that went into the invasion of Iraq. However, the taliban supported the Trade Center attack, which explains the knee jerk invasion decision. I’m just rereading Ricks’ book, “Fiasco”, about the early days of the Afghan invasion, the huge errors that were made that created the situation that has existed since. We could have done this better and we bungled badly when we had the chance. The root causes of that failure appear to be cultural arrogance, military arrogance, and American politics of the time.

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  3. There now is a very sad situation, in Afghanistan. Yesterday i saw some documentaries about the Légion étrangère in Afghanistan. Only in this way can I imagine creating peace there. Its a different culture there. You can not change the mind of people, without changing their culture. But if you really want that, you would call it cultural imperialism. We don’t want that either. All the best for the people there. ;-/ xx. Michael

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    • You’re so very right … it is not our place to change their culture nor their political structure. I just worry about the people there … for 20 years they have not been subjected to the cruelty of the Taliban, but once again they will be now. Sigh. xx

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  5. isn’t it interesting that when trump wanted to withdraw the troops, it was wreckless and stupid but now that Biden wants to do it, it’s just a poorly timed decision.

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    • Strategy? What’s that? I don’t think planning and strategy ever cross the minds of our leaders. The human factor seems to be lost … it has given way to greed, profit, commercialism, and more. Sigh. 😥

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  7. “I want you to close your eyes and remember where you were at around 9:00 a.m. on the 11th of September, twenty years ago.”

    Shopping at a fancy mall here in Cape Town. The CNN live footage showed on all screens. People weren’t very excited one way or the other and the general consensus was like “Pheew, finally they got what they deserve. That’s the consequence of ruining world peace and fuking with the planet over and over again.”

    Honestly, your leaders are more coldblooded than you think. Nobody in the Pentagon gives a wet towel about Afghan women. All they want is getting closer to the Russian border and control the trade routes. The hindukush is a very important economical region, that’s why everybdy wanna get a hold on it. To bad some towelheads are in control of it, right? But it’s their fukn country, not yours!

    And Afghanistan, sorry to say, is still a sovereign country and as long as the govmt doesn’t call for help and invites foreign militaries we better stay away. The taliban have the support of most Afghanis, else they wouldn’t be so influential. Get it!

    And also, please don’t think the Russians are completely off. They monitor every move very closely and are in negotiations with Kabul and the taliban. When the time comes and shit hits the fan they will step in and reinstate law and order. We will thank them later. 😉

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      • You’re not alone, Jill. Nationalism is, I believe, a curse humanity has inflicted upon itself. Its roots lie in historical boundaries that have arisen by centuries of conflict; many of these cannot be seen from space. I think it’s tragic that how our lives pan out is governed by the luck of the draw, a die roll determining our place of birth. People give lip service to ‘humanitarianism’, and only when it suits their other agendae.

        A truly ‘humanitarian’ species would abolish these artificial boundaries and seek to resolve the inequalities and injustices that abound throughout the world we (in theory) share. Of course, I’m talking in terms of a world government, and the mere idea of that is anathema to the vast majority, wherever they call ‘home’ — but that’s only because we’ve all been raised to believe that our country, whichever one that is, is ‘the best’, and that’s never likely to change.

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        • You are spot on! Yes, the borders of countries are false boundaries, subject to change any time some ‘world leader’ sees an opportunity. Trump pushed his “America First” philosophy and I absolutely hated to even hear those words! We are all on this globe together … between the ravages of the pandemic and climate change, it almost seems as if we are trying to wipe out the human species. As a child, I was told that the U.S., or “America” as it is called, was the greatest country to live in … I no longer believe that. Pick an issue … racism, corruption, lack of care of the environment, guns, and more. I can’t even imagine a world government … with the right people in charge, perhaps, but it wouldn’t be long before money and greed took over, as they have in most nations today.

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  8. Jill, it is a conundrum, but the US failed to heed an important historical lesson, that the USSR also failed to heed in the 1980s. No opposing force has ever been successful in Afghanistan. No matter when we pull out, the same result would occur. The Taliban will pressure the distributed citizens into acquiescence with the threat of unfettered violence. With that said, I am surprised by the haste of the takeover. The key will be what happens in the more populated cities. Keith

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    • There are no easy answers, for sure. I just cannot imagine the atrocities, the crimes against humanity that are likely already taking place, especially against women and others who have in one way or another supported the U.S. efforts. Sigh. Perhaps 20 years ago, I might not have felt so strongly, but since then, I have made friends here with people from Iraq, Iran, and Pakistan, and I understand much more about the way things work in the Middle East and about the Taliban. Sigh.

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  9. To all of you, there is one part no one has mentioned, a part Canada is trying to fix, but will probably not get done in time. In those 20 or so years of interference, we used a lot, a huge lot, of Afghanis to help both Canadians and Americans try to do the job they were commanded to do. By withdrawing all our troops, we left all our friends and collaborators behind. Do you really think the Taliban forgives and forgets. They have already started to make Western sympathizers disappear. When this was brought to the attention of the Canadian government, it decided to try to rescue our Afghani allies. But that effort is now tied up in the red tape all governments create to slow matters like this down. WE HAVE ABANDONED THE PEOPLE WE USED! They need to be rescued, and they need to be rescued now, not a year from now when we won’t be able to find them anymore.
    They are going to die horrible deaths! We need to ACT NOW! Nothing less is acceptable.

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    • They offered themselves up as aides to first the Russians and later the Americans. Consequences of collaboration with invading forces are well-known since thousands of years. Remember the photos of baldshaved women being driven through French towns and cities for collaborating with the nazis in WW2?

      I just learned the one singer from ABBA (the redhead) had a kinda rough childhood since her father was a soldier of the German occupation forces in Sweden.

      Why does anybody expect anything different now that the Americans are leaving Afghanistan? They left thousands of Vietnamese lickspittles behind without much concern when they were kicked out of ‘nam, what you expect them to do this time around?

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      • Does what was done to Jews and others in Nazi Germany and elsewhere justify throwing the Afghani people to the wolves? Do two wrongs = a right? We have to start somewhere … have to have compassion for ALL people, regardless of their nationality or ethnicity. We cannot simply keep using false moral equivalencies to justify our cruelty. Sigh.

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        • Jill, that’s not what I said! But we can’t put our hats on Afghani heads. It’s not a good fit.They never had democracy, they never wanted neither needed democracy, human rights, women rights or anything out of the Western principles and values catalogue. The Afghanis are a very traditional tribal people with chieftains and warlords and all the terrible shit. But with what right do we wanna go in there and make things right? And as I said, our wise leaders couldn’t be less interested in the humanitarian aspect if they tried. It’s all about business and global powergames. They won’t save a single woman from stoning.

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          • I have been against the interventionalist strategies of both parties since the 1990’s when Bush invaded Iraq. My guess is, had we not tried to police the area and sold our way of life to them, no matter how much benefit we feel it has, there wouldn’t have been an attack in the first place.

            I was against this then, I understood why it was necessary to go after 9-11 but to be there for 20 years is just ridiculous.

            we are not the police of the world, not everybody wants or needs to be like us.

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      • Bring them to North America, where they have much less to fear. They were not collaborating with Nazis, though the Taliban might agree with you.
        Or is it you are comparing US and Canadian troops to Nazis?
        Whatever, we have a responsibility to protect those who help us, don’t you think.
        Lickspittle indeed! Sounds almost racist to me!

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        • “They were not collaborating with Nazis”
          … but with uninvited occupants.

          “though the Taliban might agree with you.”
          And rightfully so. You created the Taliban, showed them how intl politics works, and they developed some kinda national pride. Now deal with them.

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          • Excuse me? Iam not American, and I doubt even the Americans “created” the Taliban, they have been around for years. They started out as a bunch of unorganized robber barons and their personal armies, terrorizing the Afghanis who wanted to live a peaceful life.
            The “occupation” may have caused the to organize, but they were already there, and part of the reason whatever Afghan government official asked for help from Russia in the first place.
            I have no idea where you are from, but your words are not peaceful words. Do you not want peace, everywhere? I think that is one of the aims of Jill’s blog, though I’m sure she will tell you for herself. Or maybe she will tell me, lol.

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            • Thank you, rg! You are right … that is one of the goals of my blog. I’m not jumping into these comments much, for I’ve been ill for a couple of days and don’t feel like dealing with it right now, but thanks to you and Keith.

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      • The Kurds, were a terrible choice as local allies, just like the Taliban.Totally unreliable and chaotic. A people without a land, distributed across numerous intl borders. Fukn bad choice.

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    • You are right, rg … and no, the Taliban will know exactly who those people are and they will not let them off lightly. It seems to be the way of the western world that we use people, and then when they are no longer of use, we discard them like so much used toilet tissue. We leave them to their fate. There will be retaliation against ALL Afghanis who did not and do not fully support the Taliban, I think, even if they didn’t actively help your country or mine. And I also agree that we owe them our help, owe them a life in our country if they so choose, but … seems like not more than a few of us care. I’m disappointed in the U.S. for this.

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      • As Orca noted, though in a not very nice way, occupying forces often pull out and leave their friends and allies to their fate. It is time to change that, if the helpers are now wanting our help. Two planes full of Afghani immigrants landed in Canada yesterday, I think, but it will take many more such airlifts to rescue all who want to come.

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        • “As Orca noted, though in a not very nice way,”
          Thank your for noticing. I’m here coz I’m angry, not to make friends. Plus my English vernacular is too poor to allow for much friendly convo.

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  10. Apart from the Government of Afghanistan, not all of the people have welcomed what they think of as the occupation of their Country.. Some support the Taliban and indeed there’s no telling them apart as showed when one killed a Government member last week. But the people had also been used to quite Westernised ways before the Russians moved in . The US armed the Taliban as allies prepared to battle the Russians and found themselves with a big problem once the Russians withdrew. Uneducated men with a lot of weaponry. The Taliban wanted their country back but under a system dominated by savage rules centuries old but preserved in the name of religion. The only way out would be to create a Taliban state where the people who wanted to live this way could do so but with the agreement that the rest of the nation was to be left alone under their own rule unmolested. The alternatives are for the US to remain on the ground forever or until there are no Taliban left because recruitment has dried up or for the Afghan tribes who don’t want the Taliban to unite together to defeat them, if hey can identify them.
    Cwtch

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    • No doubt you are right that some of the people DO support the Taliban, but I don’t think that’s true for the majority. I could be wrong … but it seems we have kept the people safer than they would have been under the Taliban, and those who don’t support the Taliban will be in grave danger of retaliation … especially the women. I’m bothered that nobody seems to much care what happens to the people there who do not support the Taliban and do not wish to live under their iron fist. I … I … guess I should try to harden my heart and ignore the pain they are about to experience, but … I cannot. There is a point … a point where … we owe them something. Sigh. 😥
      Cwtch

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  11. I too have mixed feelings about the too precipitous withdrawal, which will leave many innocent people at the mercy of those who have no mercy. On the other hand, as Biden noted, the U.S. trained a 300,000-man Afghan army….and they have crumbled as the U.S. has withdrawn, seemingly lacking the will to stand up to the Taliban.There is no glory here for either American political leadership or (for the most part) Afghan military mettle.

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    • You’re the first person … I think the only one … who shares my concern for the people of that country. Yes, yes, I know it was past time for us to leave, but people who were but babies when we first invaded, have grown to rely on us for their safety, their lives. And now, we’re leaving without … so much as a goodbye hug. I fear especially for the women who will NOT fare well under Taliban rule. I fully support President Biden, but in this, it seems he is uncaring, and that disturbs me. Sigh.

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      • Thank you for pointing that out, Jill — indeed, young Afghans have known no other llfe than living under American protection….and now we’re leaving ‘freed’ women and girls to face Taliban fanaticism (not to mention shamefully failing to secure promised sanctuary for ALL Afghan interpreters (and their families) who aided American and allied forces).

        As for others not sharing your concern, I’m sure that at least some of the previous commenters share your concern, but simply failed (or didn’t think) to express it.

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        • You’re so right … we should have offered a home here with a path to citizenship for any who helped us and their families. I also hope you’re right about the others sharing my concern. This is a humanitarian issue, not a political one.

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    • “lacking the will to stand up to the Taliban.”
      And why would they? I bet 80% of them are Taliban.And they’ve been armed by America! 🙂

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  12. I was thinking about the withdrawal, too. The U.S. addiction to war. The “reasons” why we went in. How we expected success when the Soviets failed. When others had failed. How, were I Afghani, I would be biding my time, waiting for the foreigners to withdraw, as they always do, stockpile weapons in the meantime, study targets and make plans. How I would do nothing or little until then to let the government get soft and complacent. How I would then strike quickly and decisively.

    Yeah, no surprises. This tragedy has been seen before. Just a reboot. Shameful that this production cost so many lives. Destroyed so many relationships. Injured and damaged so many. I’m sorry, but I don’t think there was a safer way to withdraw. We were meddling in place we had no business being in with the military. We were trying to enforce our will with force. To punish them. Now the Taliban are doing the same. Wrong-headed thinking all around. But that addiction to violence…war…weapons…power. There’s no easy way to go cold-turkey.

    Hugs and cheers as always, Michael

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    • Our reasons for occupying Afghanistan to begin with were not well thought-out, were not the right reasons at all, and I fully concur with that. However, once we did go in, the people of Afghanistan came to rely on us to keep them safe, and we did try to do that. Now, we are pulling up stakes and … frankly, I don’t give a damn about the government or the military, but I do care so much what will happen to the people … the average people, especially the women. If we cannot make long-term, permanent progress in a country, then we should just stay out! Sigh. Sorry … I’m just a soft-hearted bleeding-heart liberal, I guess, who cares more about people than economies and military matters.

      Hugs ‘n cheers to you, dear Michael!!!

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      • Hello, kettle, meet pot. I’m a bleeding heart liberal, too. Like to see the people of the world given a much better chance instead of being shortchanged in the name of power, nationalism, corporate profits, and a bunch of other isms. It will happen someday. We and others will just keep our shoulders to the boulder until it comes about. Cheers and hugs, mon ami.

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  13. Jill, my other-half and I (rather hotly) discussed this issue last night. His contention is that people who live in these countries are simply not like us. They have been born, raised, and live in conditions that most of us can’t even imagine. The presence of the U.S. may (or may not) have made their lives (somewhat) better, but bottom line, it was always “temporary.”

    Further, as with pretty much all actions around the world, it boils down to “politics.”

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    • When you start with “My other half and I discussed …”, I automatically figure it was ‘rather hotly’! 😄 Sigh. This is a tough situation all the way around, but to say they are simply not like us is misguided. Humans are pretty much the same when you cut through the cultural issues … inside we all want the same things and hurt over the same things. Yes, our presence in Afghanistan was always intended to be temporary, but … we are leaving millions of people to be harmed, some will be killed, and women will fear for their lives. Sigh. 😥

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  14. Yes, I expected the Taliban to take over. No, I didn’t want that, but I don’t see a good alternative.

    Let’s remember that Trump already agreed to withdraw from Afghanistan. All Biden did, was move the date to a little earlier.

    The major mistake here was by George Bush (dubya), when he decided to go into Afghanistan. We already knew from past experience that this would not work out. I understand the concerns over 9/11 and Afghanistan being used as a base. But Bush could have ordered a quick raid to attack terrorist sites. There was never a good reason to send in an occupying force.

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    • I agree that Dubya made the first mistake, but we’re not just talking about a ‘country’ here, we’re talking about real people. People who have had a degree of security that … POOF … is now gone and they will suffer. No, we couldn’t stay there forever, and perhaps there are no good solutions, but I still feel awful for the people and wish we could have done something … I don’t know what, but something … differently. But then, I’m a bleeding heart liberal, or so I’ve been told. 😉

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      • I agree that Dubya made the first mistake, but we’re not just talking about a ‘country’ here, we’re talking about real people.

        Yes, this is what makes it hard. However, most of the Afghan people want us out of there. The Taliban are being so successful because they have the support of the people. I do not know of any good alternatives.

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