84 thoughts on ““They may ring their bells now; before long they will be wringing their hands. –“ Robert Walpole 1739.”
Thanks Jill for the reblog.
Remember the good old days of simple graft, ordinary name calling, stretching the truth thin?
Then just grumbling after ‘the other folk’ got elected and responses restricted to ‘He’ll ruin the country I tell ya!’
Happy times (Irony)
My pleasure, Roger … it was spot-on! Yeah, or even the days of a president hiring people to break into a hotel room and learn the opponent’s campaign strategy, eh? But even Nixon had the sense to know when the gig was up! What we are seeing today, the cult of Trump, is something reminiscent of Germany in the early 1930s, not anything we’ve seen here before. It’s both frightening and depressing, at least to those of us who actually think. Sigh.
The number of parallels of mob mentality taking hold are numerously depressing. Even those who thought they were controlling it get caught up in the sheer irrationality.
In the end no one is really driving.
Or rather, someone is driving, but not who the masses believe it is. Rather, it is someone with a very evil purpose … the man behind the curtain, so to speak.
Siezing power within an established autocracy is one thing, different name, same business. Replacing a democracy in a small nation with an autocracy is a relatively easy, unless you’re are part of or related to the body count.
Trying to replace a 200 year selectively democratic federal system over five time zones in a clumsy power grab where gun owning is a must and a number of hostile opposition groups….
See what I mean.
If anyone attempts to assassinate any of the current Republican Right-Wing, it will be an old school republican screaming ‘ This isn’t gonna work. It’ll destroy the USA, you a’holes,’
There’s no one in charge Jill. The puppet masters are drunk and not very good are their craft. And the plan was scribbled out one morning on the back of a cereal box.
There is a problem with my prognosis.
Those who kick back are not all noble, fair minded, heroic types who pause to make deep asides about freedom and equality.
The Republican Party is currently tinkering with a Pandora’ s Box .
Indeed they are, and even more so than most of us realize. People in this country have had it too good for too long and don’t realize the very real threat that things could change drastically in a short period of time.
White folk set in the middle of the road and growing up in the comfy zone should have had enough warnings to just accept Biden and the Democrats are the least worst alternative and it’s not just The Economy any more.
Complacency and apathy … they will be our downfall. I can hear them in 5-6 years, wondering how this came to pass. If I’m still alive, I will remind them how.
As I have always said, those people most suited to governing are too intelligent to want the job. Dougie boy just said it backwards, but to the same result. We do not get good governors, we get people who just want power, 99 times out of 100.
I’m afraid so rawgod, good friend.
It is one of those destructive paradoxes Humanity has signed up to.
Some of them may start out with the very best of intentions but then they get caught up in ‘The Accommodations’ ‘The Realpolitik’ (I’m as bad as the rest there) ‘The Necessities’ and away we go.
You’ve got the right vision.
It needs space to evolve in a friendly way.
PS:
Sorry I’ve not been around to reply to your posts, can’t quite put my finger on it. Maybe Time is evaporating in the summer heat?
Remember, Sir Roger, time does not exist. In Canada we have what we call native time. Things happen when they happen. Time was never a word until we learned it from the White Man. History was counted in “moons.” Hence the phrase, “Many moons ago.” Could mean less than a year, could mean 23,000 years. Keeping track of years, that was for picky people.
It’s true. Every instant is now, and nothing truly matters but the now. But as you say, humans love to label everything, so many believe time is real. I bet you cam list a few other things people believe are real, but aren’t.
Being European I’m locked into clocks. It’s the only way we can keep our sense stability, and it took us several centuries to agree on a standard time too.
Meanwhile I shall fall back on a quote from Hamlet ‘Time is out of joint’
Oh yeah.
(In Adams’ book, the solution is some fellow inhabits a planet, with only his cat for company and converses with himself on an existential level. Occasionally a space ship arrives with a group of people, who he doesn’t think exist, they listen to his musings and depart, and he carries on much as before)
Many people are really worried about the UK unless change comes. Even with the events of this week, more people are starting to envisage Johnson trying to re-emerge as PM. Plus of the candidates about half are potentially more if a liability than him.
We are wondering the sames things here in Alberta, where Jason Kenney resigned as Premier one day, then came back the next day as interim Premier until a new party leader is elected. He has been even worse since this happened than before he resigned. I think BoJo took lessons.
What in the Sam Heck is wrong with our countries these days? What is the allure of a corrupt, arrogant, greedy leader like Johnson and Trump? My fingers are crossed for you guys to see the last of Boris very soon and replace him with somebody who at least puts the well-being of the country and its people ahead of their own desires. Seems those sort are rarer and rarer these days. Sigh.
True that there are always opportunists and snake oil merchants, but today it seems a huge portion of society gravitate toward those without conscience. It’s almost as if they are bored with a system that works, albeit not without glitches, and they want to tear it down just to see the smoke rise.
Here’s a thought.
Maybe watching too much of this ‘Reality’ TV (which it an’t) has given folks the sub-conscious idea that only the outrageous and big-mouthed are the true ‘role models’.
All this ‘well at least they say what they feel’ dangerous nonsense.
That may very well be the case. That, and the lies they are told by the very people who would manipulate and exploit them for their own greedy purposes. Yes, it is dangerous nonsense and it’s having an effect … not a positive one.
Exactly. I have a theory that climate change and the chemicals used in agriculture have done something to people’s brains and they are no longer capable of coherent thought.
Whereas I wouldn’t trust Gove not to slither and slide into Number 10 as is his usual tactic, I can’t see anyone worse than Johnson; which does set the bar so low as to agitate the grass.
Since around the 1st-century BCE humankind, especially the Western Hemisphere, has known all too well and ironically repeatedly, that this, Robert Walpole in 1739 spoke of a timeless truth. A truth that rings true today, rang true then 300-years ago, and rang truer even many, many millenia BEFORE Mr. Walpole spoke it:
“To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child.” — Marcus Tullius Cicero, 46 BCE
A stark reminder and ancient lesson DDWP (Roger) and Jill. But upon who’s ear and heart will it take to their soul and remain fresh? Hmmm.
Which proves a point I made a few days ago … that humans will NEVER become the peaceful, loving breed we all once hoped. If they haven’t managed to even learn after thousands of years, I give up expecting them to do so now. Thanks, Prof … ’twas my pleasure!
“that humans will NEVER become the peaceful, loving breed we all once hoped.”
You meant to say “Americans will NEVER become the peaceful, loving breed we all once hoped.”
Rest of us is doing fine. Some locally restricted squabbles here and there but in the end everybody’s looking eye to eye. China and India for example are fighting over some Himalayan mountain ranges but are proud members of the same BRICS economic union.
BTW, Chinese will win since they are using allied Wookie forces:
And the Russia/Ukraine conflict would have never happend without the CIA massacre on Maidan in 2014 and Nuland’s puppet Zelensky’s nazi regime in Kiev. Nuland, the Kagans and their minion, Biden installed the Zelensky regime with the order to provoke Russia. That was the playbook, and so far everything’s turned out exactly as planned.
See now why more and more countries are turning their back on the US and EU?
No, actually I did NOT mean to say “Americans”, for in my view, the rest of you aren’t doing “fine”. There are problems all over the world. The U.S. is undergoing some deeply troubling, serious crises at the moment that could well turn the nation into a dictatorship within the next few years, but look, if you will, at the humanitarian crises in other parts of the world, for example Afghanistan. And, of course you’ll argue, but the continued brutality of the Russian invasion of Ukraine is even more brutal than anything happening in the U.S. And then there’s the dictator Bolsonaro in Brazil who is not only brutalizing his own people, but is destroying the Amazon Rainforest … a move that will ultimately lead to the destruction of the global environment. So no, my friend, I did not mean to say “Americans”. I said what I meant and meant what I said.
And yet, if you look at the root causes of most of the conflicts, you’ll find some or the other US agency as the driving force. Also, sorry, but 80% of the planet fails to see your fantasy of a brutal Russian invasion in Ukraine. Because it is just that: a fantasy. Didn’t you listen to Putin’s last speech? They are not art war with the Ukraine, they started a very limited intervention into Donbass to help out the Donbass republics, to save lives. And that is what all the material and what all the intelligence material is showing. If America and the EU wouldn’t be so selfish and jaded they would be over there and helping Russia in its plight. Not ta
Not that they really need it but not being in the way of democracy would be a good start.
You say brutal? Most people just say effective. The Russian military is very very professional, if called into action they strike hard. But only at their enemies, not the civilians, not the infrastructure. They even gave then ASOV assholes enough ultimatum to lay down their guns and come out of the bunkers. Imagine how the Ukraine would look by now if NATO forces had the same job. There wouldn’t be two bricks standing on top of each other! Total destruction! Indifferent killing. 😦 The same game as we know it from Serbia.
“dictator Bolsonaro in Brazil”
Fuxn Brazilians voted him into office. Nothing anyone can do. Nothing anyone can do.And nothing the USA would, oppose to. If he was a good socialist I guess the CIA would’ve found a way to cut his reign short by now.
Ha ha … you make me laugh, Orca! No, 80% of the planet does not think Putin is the wonderful humanitarian that you think he is. 80% or more of the people in the world are horrified and appalled over what Putin is doing in Ukraine. And no, the U.S. is not the driving force for all the world’s troubles. But you know what … you should write a book! ‘Twould make for a great fantasy read!
“Ha ha … you make me laugh, Orca!”
Not for much longer I’m afraid.
“No, 80% of the planet does not think Putin is the wonderful humanitarian that you think he is.”
Neither I nor 80% of the world do think he’s a wonderful humanitarian.
“80% or more of the people in the world are horrified and appalled over what Putin is doing in Ukraine.”
China and India already make almost 80%. Add to that the rest of Asia, most of Africa and Latin America where there’s no US puppet regime, and you’ll see how small the selfish western bubble has become.
“And no, the U.S. is not the driving force for all the world’s troubles.”
Not all … but most. I guess the US has no skin in the China/India border dispute, I’ll give you that. But they are also both friends of Russia. And not afraid at all. Because Russia is a true friend, not a hegemon.
What I don’t understand is that you are a clear and outspoken critic of all the shitty American politicians. But when it comes to international politics (often by the same shitty guys) you close your eyes and ears and just follow the herd. 😦
Sorry. Wrong. Wrong. Open a global atlas. Start with Mali and draw a very broad line across Northern Africa until you get to the Horn of Africa, and you will see conflict. Move down south into Central Africa and you will see conflict. Go north into Middle east and you will see conflict. The Indian sub-continent has several layers of communal violence and Kashmir is in conflict. In China an entire people are being effectively re-worked in camps. Go down south into Myanmar- multiple conflicts; Indonesia and Philippines are both involved in low level insurgencies. Keep going across the pacific and bump into Mexico where drug cartels have warlord status.
And that’s before we get to the old historical situation of a war in Ukraine, which has nothing to do with CIA, NATO, EU etc, etc but in a pull of history 500 years old.
And we have not mentioned all the communal fights over land, grazing rights, livestock, discriminations against minorities (not just a Caucasian crime, that one).
I know there’s the urge to keep it simple (like the Good ‘Old’ Cold War days-sarcasm) but it an’t. Humanity stands accused in the dock and most if not directly guilty are guilty by association in one form or another.
No one gets out of this with clean hands.
“Open a global atlas.”
No need. I’m not American but know my way around our rock.
“Start with Mali”
Where France is trying to keep the pot on slow boil and even Germany has sent one or two platoons of experts, doing some oldfashioned colonialism. Anyway, if this ain’t a global conflict “Horn of Africa”, it is coz it obvsly is an American interest zone.
“Central Africa and you will see conflict. Go north into Middle east and you will see conflict.”
Yes, yes. Either with so,e EU or US powers in then center of the hubbub or directly causing it.
“The Indian sub-continent has several layers of communal violence and Kashmir is in conflict.”
As I’ve mentioned already. And yet, Indian and China are partners in BRICS. All is almost good.
“In China an entire people are being effectively re-worked in camps.”
Needs verification. And even if: Feeding 1.5 billion people sometimes needs some tough love. Whoever’s in the way of progress will be punished. China knows no democracy but what most people have now is so much better than everything they’ve ever known before.
“Myanmar- multiple conflicts; Indonesia and Philippines are both involved in low level insurgencies.”
As mentioned, local conflicts nobody cares about. Else US marines would be there and left mountains of death.
“Mexico where drug cartels have warlord status.”
Mexico’s internal problems, no? And same as Myanmar, go in, sacrifice your own younglings, brag later. Why don’t you? Oh, I see, no profits.
“Ukraine, which has nothing to do with CIA, NATO, EU”
Are you really so blind? Where have you been since 2013 and now? Never listened to any of Russia’s pleas, not noticed the US-ordered terror on the population of Donbass? This discussion is factually over and done with.
“a pull of history 500 years old.”
No. Again, no! If you wanna go back 50o years you’ll have to give the Ukraine to Poland I guess. There. Case closed. But unfortunately neither Nuland nor Putin nor any of the Ukrainians are living in medieval Poland but in the here and now. The here and now where America an Europa crapping their panties, afraid of the inevitable dawning of the upcoming Asian centuries.
“I know there’s the urge to keep it simple”
No! Absolutely not. Again maybe in America they like to keep it black/white good/evil Luke/Vader but most people know it’s much more complicated. Multiple think tanks make sure of it.
“Humanity stands accused in the dock”
It’s mostly America and its NATO minions standing accused. The rest 80% of the globe can wash their hands clean off it.
‘Mali’
French intervention at government request. Also bear in mind economic intervention by ECOWAS, the local grouping. The conflict is essential tribal and a patch work of politically motivated groups. The French few units is slight in comparison with local forces and outside regional groupings. It’s part of the Sahel jig-saw.
‘Horn of Africa’
Drought and wars have been making the news on the world stage. Drought shows how Humanity is in thrall to the climate and not the other way around. And no one outside wants to get involved in those wars. The West has no military business there only humanitarian.
‘Central Africa / Middle East’.
Well Russia hardly has clean hands in either region, nor China, although the latter uses economic and aid as soft power. Their interventions is of a far higher level. And again it comes back to regional and local issues. The West / USA are hardly political players there. The colonial ships sailed off and sunk long ago.
Indian Sub-Continent.
‘ All is almost good.’ – You are going to have to clarify that one. What’s ‘almost?’
China
‘Tough Love’
Ah, now there’s a phrase which all the large nations of the world could use in cover up their activities. No, it won’t do. You can’t have one nation’s actions being wrong and another as ‘tough love’. Persecution is persecution.
“Myanmar- multiple conflicts; Indonesia and Philippines are both involved in low level insurgencies.”
There is a contradiction there. If the USA went in, you would be charging them of interreference. But if they don’t you accuse them of only getting involved for profit. That is inconsistent.
Ukraine;
All Russia’s fault this one. The excuses for Russia being provoked or pleading just will not stand up. And I am afraid we have to refer back to history to look at the roots. None of these conflicts spring up spontaneously. Russia could well have used soft power in the Ukraine, could well have suggested the Ukraine’s interests lay eastwards, could well have eased the situation. But the Kremlin resorted to its default position of force.
If you say Russia was provoked into action then by default you can say everything the USA was involved with in post WWII was as a result of being provoked and coming to the aid of allies.
There can be no selective labelling here. USA / USSR and then Russia, it’s a long game. The USA took over from Europe which ruined itself in WWII.
Global
It is no use trying to blame the USA for everything and then saying other large powers are entitled to do the same. I’ve witnessed this argument many times, and it simply does not stand examination.
The long history of Humanity shows this. The USA did not invent this, the USA did not even finesse it. The USA walked or blundered into a gap left by the old European states. And that is a very old story which goes back into recorded time.
As much as folk would like it, there are no innocents, here.
“‘ All is almost good.’ – You are going to have to clarify that one. What’s ‘almost?’”
Almost means exactly that.They have that border dispute, since like forever. Nobody else’s bizniz. And no problem for those two either since they are both partners in BRICS and friends of Russia.
“But if they don’t you accuse them of only getting involved for profit. ”
No. I wouldn’t say anything. You won’t hear me criticitzing any country for not getting involved in warfare. It’s simply not our bizniz!
“You can’t have one nation’s actions being wrong and another as ‘tough love’.”
Sure I can. China has far larger fish to fry than some muslim troublemakers in the periphery. America obvsly doesn’t, they get involved to support the bad and corrupted guys. Totally different things.
“than some muslim troublemakers in the periphery.”
The sheer heartlessness of that remark is breath taking.
There is no point in further discussion. Anyway it’s a contradiction; if they had bigger fish to fry they would not be herding folk into camps now would they?
Trying to say one nation can do what it likes but not another is a very poor argument.
Not a contradiction, no heartlessness. I just tried to argue from a PRC POV. The camps thing is a crude theory, most probably mean spirited propaganda and should be dismissed until we have clarification. And then it becomes a case to be discussed at UN level, not a reason for US/NATO to invade and steal natural resources!
Anyway it’s internal politics, not geopolitics. Why areyou too blind to see that most important difference?
“Trying to say one nation can do what it likes but not another is a very poor argument.”
Yes, it would if I had said that. Which, again, I didn’t.
Most of us kept our mouths shut and didn’t complain about the unspeakable evils you did on Cuba, Chile, Nicaragua, Ieranlots of other nations.
… Iran, Iraq, Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia lots of other nations. And now your next victim is the Ukraine, which you sacrifice in a spectacularly whiney manner. And still you complain about China playing hardball on a very minor minority? Doesn’t gel with me and most other people on earth. And that is exactly what dsq’s you from the shiny house on the hill, the leader of the free world but makes you just some brutal and selfish hegemon.
Anyway, you can whine and scream now and locking me out of your bubble (which I have left long ago anyway), you won’t stop the flow of time. We, the West, had our many centuries of growth and power and stewardship of this planet. And boy, did we fuk it up. 😮 Now it’s time for some worthier people, with better theories and models, to take over. The Asian aera has begun, if you want or not. You may scream and kick on your way into the sobering cell, it won’t help.
Be careful when you argue an extremist POV without caveats and clarifications, you may find yourself subsumed into a mindset you did not intend.
Actually internal politics and geopolitics are parts of the whole. They reveal the overall mindset. Thus on the face of it China’s aid policy in Africa can be seen as generous and on a global scale neighbourly. However the treatment of a section of its own population raises the question is China using backdoor colonialism, and getting mired in the problems all colonial powers find?
On a global scale to insist that one large power is always wrong and the others have ‘reasons’ is myopic at best, naive at worst.
Large nations, empires and the constructs in between have always acted in interventionists ways. The degrees of scale and methods are the only measuring sticks.
To repeat it simply will not do on a global scale to give one a free pass and the other not.
One day the ones you excuse will come in some form knocking at your door and insist on a friendly visit.
And that will often not be in a way you expected nor realised.
None of them have clean hands. No nation or people are wholly innocent.
Humanity is flawed.
Thanks Jill
If anyone ever feels suddenly and irrationally flippant, I suggest reading the BBCi World news page and then flip onto the regional items; that’ll bring them back down to a more sober mindset.
Sigh. They read just like they hear — only what is convenient to their per-conceived notions. Remember that old saying, “A mind is a terrible thing to waste”? Seems to be a lot of waste these days, doesn’t there?
There is a certain line of thought about the actions of the Allies in WWII, one of those ‘We don’t talk about it’.
This being that both Germany and Japan were to be hammered so very badly that all the previous and persistent militarism would be knocked out of them, for good.
Sometimes History suggests a folk or nation will just inadvertently invite that, though rarely does the lesson stick; Germany and Japan being examples of learning.
Which says, yet again, that if we don’t study and learn the lessons of history, sooner or later we will repeat them. Today, the U.S. wants to whitewash history, cut out all the bad stuff and teach only that which has a rosy glow. Recipe for disaster.
Eventually you get a backfire.
An extreme example was the notion in the 1920s that WWI was nothing but blunder and a complete waste, instead of half blunders and a great deal of waste. (still a common fallacy)
This led to a common idea that no more wars must be fought, despite the evidence of growing aggressive dictatorships, putting a break of being alert to the danger.
If you don’t keep on open mind on history, events will swamp you.
Thanks.
It’s a mess. It’s a mess that’s 5,000 (or was that 7,000?) years old.
There are folk, and groups out there doing their best to use other than guns; https://saadiahaq.wordpress.com/
The Human Lens
Let us wish them all the very best
Glad to spread the word.
It is a wonderful site to remind us on constant struggles and some triumphs in the places which don’t make the headlines in The West.
In other words: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” ~ George Santayana
And still people cannot stop falling for populistic asswipes and empire narratives like hopeless drug addicts. Deep inside they know they’re wrong and self-destructing but it’s a too bitter pill to swallow. So they are clinging onto their hardly democratic leaders while they watch those leaders destroying their countries and societies.
As becomes evident right now in the recent case of the shrinking West vs Russian Federation, People’s Republic China, India, Brasil, Iran, Iraq et al.
Hahaha. 😄 Well, that’s ONE version (of multitudes) of current world events—it’s yours O.F. 🤭 Can you quote anyone from BEFORE the 19th-century? That was part of my reason for quoting Cicero—if you read & comprehended the intent and content of my comment to Roger. Go reread it a few more times. Let it sink in. 😉
In the larger broader picture of the last 5-10 decades (a very small window of time) and beyond, it isn’t at all about what the “Russian Federation, People’s Republic China, India, Brasil, Iran, Iraq et al” are doing right now… successfully or via hyped propaganda which I know you are very susceptible to Orca by your unfounded comments and continued LACK of citations to their support.
Nevertheless, truly democratic Republics will be around for a very, very, VERY long time to come. No matter how many “asswipes” try to hang-on to their feeble power, individual liberties and freedoms will ALWAYS—for many many generations to come!—be lurking to be liberated… FOR ALL PEOPLES… and defended and protected as long as Homo sapiens exist on this planet. Period. You can take that to the bank as a full unlimited lifetime guarantee O.F. 😁
Regards
P.S. Don’t bother replying to this. I have no interest whatsoever in your unfounded, unreasonable propaganda. Thanks. ❤️
Have to agree there.
There are folk who don’t give up though. People in vast swathes of nations from Pakistan to Philippines for instance
Check out The Human Lens: https://saadiahaq.wordpress.com/
Filosofa's Word 
Thanks Jill for the reblog.
Remember the good old days of simple graft, ordinary name calling, stretching the truth thin?
Then just grumbling after ‘the other folk’ got elected and responses restricted to ‘He’ll ruin the country I tell ya!’
Happy times (Irony)
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My pleasure, Roger … it was spot-on! Yeah, or even the days of a president hiring people to break into a hotel room and learn the opponent’s campaign strategy, eh? But even Nixon had the sense to know when the gig was up! What we are seeing today, the cult of Trump, is something reminiscent of Germany in the early 1930s, not anything we’ve seen here before. It’s both frightening and depressing, at least to those of us who actually think. Sigh.
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The number of parallels of mob mentality taking hold are numerously depressing. Even those who thought they were controlling it get caught up in the sheer irrationality.
In the end no one is really driving.
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Or rather, someone is driving, but not who the masses believe it is. Rather, it is someone with a very evil purpose … the man behind the curtain, so to speak.
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Siezing power within an established autocracy is one thing, different name, same business. Replacing a democracy in a small nation with an autocracy is a relatively easy, unless you’re are part of or related to the body count.
Trying to replace a 200 year selectively democratic federal system over five time zones in a clumsy power grab where gun owning is a must and a number of hostile opposition groups….
See what I mean.
If anyone attempts to assassinate any of the current Republican Right-Wing, it will be an old school republican screaming ‘ This isn’t gonna work. It’ll destroy the USA, you a’holes,’
There’s no one in charge Jill. The puppet masters are drunk and not very good are their craft. And the plan was scribbled out one morning on the back of a cereal box.
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I truly hope you’re right, dear Roger. I do see your point … 🤔
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There is a problem with my prognosis.
Those who kick back are not all noble, fair minded, heroic types who pause to make deep asides about freedom and equality.
The Republican Party is currently tinkering with a Pandora’ s Box .
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Indeed they are, and even more so than most of us realize. People in this country have had it too good for too long and don’t realize the very real threat that things could change drastically in a short period of time.
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White folk set in the middle of the road and growing up in the comfy zone should have had enough warnings to just accept Biden and the Democrats are the least worst alternative and it’s not just The Economy any more.
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Complacency and apathy … they will be our downfall. I can hear them in 5-6 years, wondering how this came to pass. If I’m still alive, I will remind them how.
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Invest now in a small start-up venture manufacturing T-shits with a one-word slogan:
‘Toldja’
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Ooooohhhh … I like the way you think!
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An’ me a socialist too🤫
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More and more I see the benefits of socialism … IF it could ever be implemented without human whims such as greed, lust for power, and arrogance.
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Pingback: ” They may ring their bells now; before long they will be wringing their hands –” Robert Walpole 1739. |jilldennison.com | Ramblings of an Occupy Liberal
Never trust a Power Addict!
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So very true.
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Hi rawgod. Ever read the Hitch Hiker’s Guide to The Galaxy and the section on the problem of finding a leader?
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Read it? How could I not. It’s why I “Don’t Panic!”
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😃quite so!
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But, no, I cannot remember the section on finding a leader. The mind is shot. The memory is pizzled!
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Here we go then:
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As I have always said, those people most suited to governing are too intelligent to want the job. Dougie boy just said it backwards, but to the same result. We do not get good governors, we get people who just want power, 99 times out of 100.
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I’m afraid so rawgod, good friend.
It is one of those destructive paradoxes Humanity has signed up to.
Some of them may start out with the very best of intentions but then they get caught up in ‘The Accommodations’ ‘The Realpolitik’ (I’m as bad as the rest there) ‘The Necessities’ and away we go.
You’ve got the right vision.
It needs space to evolve in a friendly way.
PS:
Sorry I’ve not been around to reply to your posts, can’t quite put my finger on it. Maybe Time is evaporating in the summer heat?
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Remember, Sir Roger, time does not exist. In Canada we have what we call native time. Things happen when they happen. Time was never a word until we learned it from the White Man. History was counted in “moons.” Hence the phrase, “Many moons ago.” Could mean less than a year, could mean 23,000 years. Keeping track of years, that was for picky people.
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I have long said that time is a contrivance of humans who seem to feel an obsession to identify and name every single thing, even the passage of time.
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It’s true. Every instant is now, and nothing truly matters but the now. But as you say, humans love to label everything, so many believe time is real. I bet you cam list a few other things people believe are real, but aren’t.
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Oh yeah … money, for one. In and of itself, it has no value.
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Goodbone. Onle 2237 to go. (At a guess, lol.)
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Being European I’m locked into clocks. It’s the only way we can keep our sense stability, and it took us several centuries to agree on a standard time too.
Meanwhile I shall fall back on a quote from Hamlet ‘Time is out of joint’
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I like this! People = Problem … ain’t it the truth!
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Oh yeah.
(In Adams’ book, the solution is some fellow inhabits a planet, with only his cat for company and converses with himself on an existential level. Occasionally a space ship arrives with a group of people, who he doesn’t think exist, they listen to his musings and depart, and he carries on much as before)
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Hmmmm … I might just have to check it out!
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It’s worth a look.
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Many people are really worried about the UK unless change comes. Even with the events of this week, more people are starting to envisage Johnson trying to re-emerge as PM. Plus of the candidates about half are potentially more if a liability than him.
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We are wondering the sames things here in Alberta, where Jason Kenney resigned as Premier one day, then came back the next day as interim Premier until a new party leader is elected. He has been even worse since this happened than before he resigned. I think BoJo took lessons.
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Oh great … that’s all we need is for Kenney to be giving lessons to other corrupt leaders!
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What in the Sam Heck is wrong with our countries these days? What is the allure of a corrupt, arrogant, greedy leader like Johnson and Trump? My fingers are crossed for you guys to see the last of Boris very soon and replace him with somebody who at least puts the well-being of the country and its people ahead of their own desires. Seems those sort are rarer and rarer these days. Sigh.
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Says more about the nations Jill. There are always opportunists and snake oil merchants.
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True that there are always opportunists and snake oil merchants, but today it seems a huge portion of society gravitate toward those without conscience. It’s almost as if they are bored with a system that works, albeit not without glitches, and they want to tear it down just to see the smoke rise.
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Here’s a thought.
Maybe watching too much of this ‘Reality’ TV (which it an’t) has given folks the sub-conscious idea that only the outrageous and big-mouthed are the true ‘role models’.
All this ‘well at least they say what they feel’ dangerous nonsense.
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That may very well be the case. That, and the lies they are told by the very people who would manipulate and exploit them for their own greedy purposes. Yes, it is dangerous nonsense and it’s having an effect … not a positive one.
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And the same folk complain about ‘Deep State’ while buying in (literally) to every snake oil message going.
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Exactly. I have a theory that climate change and the chemicals used in agriculture have done something to people’s brains and they are no longer capable of coherent thought.
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Those would be the folk who deny climate change and pandemics (except in board games, films and hastily written ‘action thrillers’)
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Yep … you got it!
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Whereas I wouldn’t trust Gove not to slither and slide into Number 10 as is his usual tactic, I can’t see anyone worse than Johnson; which does set the bar so low as to agitate the grass.
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As I commented over on Roger’s blog…
———————————
Since around the 1st-century BCE humankind, especially the Western Hemisphere, has known all too well and ironically repeatedly, that this, Robert Walpole in 1739 spoke of a timeless truth. A truth that rings true today, rang true then 300-years ago, and rang truer even many, many millenia BEFORE Mr. Walpole spoke it:
A stark reminder and ancient lesson DDWP (Roger) and Jill. But upon who’s ear and heart will it take to their soul and remain fresh? Hmmm.
———————————
Thank you Jill for this reblog! ❣️
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Which proves a point I made a few days ago … that humans will NEVER become the peaceful, loving breed we all once hoped. If they haven’t managed to even learn after thousands of years, I give up expecting them to do so now. Thanks, Prof … ’twas my pleasure!
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“that humans will NEVER become the peaceful, loving breed we all once hoped.”
You meant to say “Americans will NEVER become the peaceful, loving breed we all once hoped.”
Rest of us is doing fine. Some locally restricted squabbles here and there but in the end everybody’s looking eye to eye. China and India for example are fighting over some Himalayan mountain ranges but are proud members of the same BRICS economic union.
BTW, Chinese will win since they are using allied Wookie forces:
And the Russia/Ukraine conflict would have never happend without the CIA massacre on Maidan in 2014 and Nuland’s puppet Zelensky’s nazi regime in Kiev. Nuland, the Kagans and their minion, Biden installed the Zelensky regime with the order to provoke Russia. That was the playbook, and so far everything’s turned out exactly as planned.
See now why more and more countries are turning their back on the US and EU?
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No, actually I did NOT mean to say “Americans”, for in my view, the rest of you aren’t doing “fine”. There are problems all over the world. The U.S. is undergoing some deeply troubling, serious crises at the moment that could well turn the nation into a dictatorship within the next few years, but look, if you will, at the humanitarian crises in other parts of the world, for example Afghanistan. And, of course you’ll argue, but the continued brutality of the Russian invasion of Ukraine is even more brutal than anything happening in the U.S. And then there’s the dictator Bolsonaro in Brazil who is not only brutalizing his own people, but is destroying the Amazon Rainforest … a move that will ultimately lead to the destruction of the global environment. So no, my friend, I did not mean to say “Americans”. I said what I meant and meant what I said.
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And yet, if you look at the root causes of most of the conflicts, you’ll find some or the other US agency as the driving force. Also, sorry, but 80% of the planet fails to see your fantasy of a brutal Russian invasion in Ukraine. Because it is just that: a fantasy. Didn’t you listen to Putin’s last speech? They are not art war with the Ukraine, they started a very limited intervention into Donbass to help out the Donbass republics, to save lives. And that is what all the material and what all the intelligence material is showing. If America and the EU wouldn’t be so selfish and jaded they would be over there and helping Russia in its plight. Not ta
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Not that they really need it but not being in the way of democracy would be a good start.
You say brutal? Most people just say effective. The Russian military is very very professional, if called into action they strike hard. But only at their enemies, not the civilians, not the infrastructure. They even gave then ASOV assholes enough ultimatum to lay down their guns and come out of the bunkers. Imagine how the Ukraine would look by now if NATO forces had the same job. There wouldn’t be two bricks standing on top of each other! Total destruction! Indifferent killing. 😦 The same game as we know it from Serbia.
“dictator Bolsonaro in Brazil”
Fuxn Brazilians voted him into office. Nothing anyone can do. Nothing anyone can do.And nothing the USA would, oppose to. If he was a good socialist I guess the CIA would’ve found a way to cut his reign short by now.
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Ha ha … you make me laugh, Orca! No, 80% of the planet does not think Putin is the wonderful humanitarian that you think he is. 80% or more of the people in the world are horrified and appalled over what Putin is doing in Ukraine. And no, the U.S. is not the driving force for all the world’s troubles. But you know what … you should write a book! ‘Twould make for a great fantasy read!
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Did you delete my answer?
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Not that I’m aware of … nope, I checked Spam and Trash folders and didn’t find your response.
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Ok then. So here’s my response:
“Ha ha … you make me laugh, Orca!”
Not for much longer I’m afraid.
“No, 80% of the planet does not think Putin is the wonderful humanitarian that you think he is.”
Neither I nor 80% of the world do think he’s a wonderful humanitarian.
“80% or more of the people in the world are horrified and appalled over what Putin is doing in Ukraine.”
China and India already make almost 80%. Add to that the rest of Asia, most of Africa and Latin America where there’s no US puppet regime, and you’ll see how small the selfish western bubble has become.
“And no, the U.S. is not the driving force for all the world’s troubles.”
Not all … but most. I guess the US has no skin in the China/India border dispute, I’ll give you that. But they are also both friends of Russia. And not afraid at all. Because Russia is a true friend, not a hegemon.
What I don’t understand is that you are a clear and outspoken critic of all the shitty American politicians. But when it comes to international politics (often by the same shitty guys) you close your eyes and ears and just follow the herd. 😦
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Sorry. Wrong. Wrong. Open a global atlas. Start with Mali and draw a very broad line across Northern Africa until you get to the Horn of Africa, and you will see conflict. Move down south into Central Africa and you will see conflict. Go north into Middle east and you will see conflict. The Indian sub-continent has several layers of communal violence and Kashmir is in conflict. In China an entire people are being effectively re-worked in camps. Go down south into Myanmar- multiple conflicts; Indonesia and Philippines are both involved in low level insurgencies. Keep going across the pacific and bump into Mexico where drug cartels have warlord status.
And that’s before we get to the old historical situation of a war in Ukraine, which has nothing to do with CIA, NATO, EU etc, etc but in a pull of history 500 years old.
And we have not mentioned all the communal fights over land, grazing rights, livestock, discriminations against minorities (not just a Caucasian crime, that one).
I know there’s the urge to keep it simple (like the Good ‘Old’ Cold War days-sarcasm) but it an’t. Humanity stands accused in the dock and most if not directly guilty are guilty by association in one form or another.
No one gets out of this with clean hands.
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“Open a global atlas.”
No need. I’m not American but know my way around our rock.
“Start with Mali”
Where France is trying to keep the pot on slow boil and even Germany has sent one or two platoons of experts, doing some oldfashioned colonialism. Anyway, if this ain’t a global conflict “Horn of Africa”, it is coz it obvsly is an American interest zone.
“Central Africa and you will see conflict. Go north into Middle east and you will see conflict.”
Yes, yes. Either with so,e EU or US powers in then center of the hubbub or directly causing it.
“The Indian sub-continent has several layers of communal violence and Kashmir is in conflict.”
As I’ve mentioned already. And yet, Indian and China are partners in BRICS. All is almost good.
“In China an entire people are being effectively re-worked in camps.”
Needs verification. And even if: Feeding 1.5 billion people sometimes needs some tough love. Whoever’s in the way of progress will be punished. China knows no democracy but what most people have now is so much better than everything they’ve ever known before.
“Myanmar- multiple conflicts; Indonesia and Philippines are both involved in low level insurgencies.”
As mentioned, local conflicts nobody cares about. Else US marines would be there and left mountains of death.
“Mexico where drug cartels have warlord status.”
Mexico’s internal problems, no? And same as Myanmar, go in, sacrifice your own younglings, brag later. Why don’t you? Oh, I see, no profits.
“Ukraine, which has nothing to do with CIA, NATO, EU”
Are you really so blind? Where have you been since 2013 and now? Never listened to any of Russia’s pleas, not noticed the US-ordered terror on the population of Donbass? This discussion is factually over and done with.
“a pull of history 500 years old.”
No. Again, no! If you wanna go back 50o years you’ll have to give the Ukraine to Poland I guess. There. Case closed. But unfortunately neither Nuland nor Putin nor any of the Ukrainians are living in medieval Poland but in the here and now. The here and now where America an Europa crapping their panties, afraid of the inevitable dawning of the upcoming Asian centuries.
“I know there’s the urge to keep it simple”
No! Absolutely not. Again maybe in America they like to keep it black/white good/evil Luke/Vader but most people know it’s much more complicated. Multiple think tanks make sure of it.
“Humanity stands accused in the dock”
It’s mostly America and its NATO minions standing accused. The rest 80% of the globe can wash their hands clean off it.
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‘Mali’
French intervention at government request. Also bear in mind economic intervention by ECOWAS, the local grouping. The conflict is essential tribal and a patch work of politically motivated groups. The French few units is slight in comparison with local forces and outside regional groupings. It’s part of the Sahel jig-saw.
‘Horn of Africa’
Drought and wars have been making the news on the world stage. Drought shows how Humanity is in thrall to the climate and not the other way around. And no one outside wants to get involved in those wars. The West has no military business there only humanitarian.
‘Central Africa / Middle East’.
Well Russia hardly has clean hands in either region, nor China, although the latter uses economic and aid as soft power. Their interventions is of a far higher level. And again it comes back to regional and local issues. The West / USA are hardly political players there. The colonial ships sailed off and sunk long ago.
Indian Sub-Continent.
‘ All is almost good.’ – You are going to have to clarify that one. What’s ‘almost?’
China
‘Tough Love’
Ah, now there’s a phrase which all the large nations of the world could use in cover up their activities. No, it won’t do. You can’t have one nation’s actions being wrong and another as ‘tough love’. Persecution is persecution.
“Myanmar- multiple conflicts; Indonesia and Philippines are both involved in low level insurgencies.”
There is a contradiction there. If the USA went in, you would be charging them of interreference. But if they don’t you accuse them of only getting involved for profit. That is inconsistent.
Ukraine;
All Russia’s fault this one. The excuses for Russia being provoked or pleading just will not stand up. And I am afraid we have to refer back to history to look at the roots. None of these conflicts spring up spontaneously. Russia could well have used soft power in the Ukraine, could well have suggested the Ukraine’s interests lay eastwards, could well have eased the situation. But the Kremlin resorted to its default position of force.
If you say Russia was provoked into action then by default you can say everything the USA was involved with in post WWII was as a result of being provoked and coming to the aid of allies.
There can be no selective labelling here. USA / USSR and then Russia, it’s a long game. The USA took over from Europe which ruined itself in WWII.
Global
It is no use trying to blame the USA for everything and then saying other large powers are entitled to do the same. I’ve witnessed this argument many times, and it simply does not stand examination.
The long history of Humanity shows this. The USA did not invent this, the USA did not even finesse it. The USA walked or blundered into a gap left by the old European states. And that is a very old story which goes back into recorded time.
As much as folk would like it, there are no innocents, here.
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“‘ All is almost good.’ – You are going to have to clarify that one. What’s ‘almost?’”
Almost means exactly that.They have that border dispute, since like forever. Nobody else’s bizniz. And no problem for those two either since they are both partners in BRICS and friends of Russia.
“But if they don’t you accuse them of only getting involved for profit. ”
No. I wouldn’t say anything. You won’t hear me criticitzing any country for not getting involved in warfare. It’s simply not our bizniz!
“You can’t have one nation’s actions being wrong and another as ‘tough love’.”
Sure I can. China has far larger fish to fry than some muslim troublemakers in the periphery. America obvsly doesn’t, they get involved to support the bad and corrupted guys. Totally different things.
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Oh, almost forgot this lecture by Prof Mearsheimer. He’s one of your own, so don’t accuse me of only looking for un-American propaganda:
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“than some muslim troublemakers in the periphery.”
The sheer heartlessness of that remark is breath taking.
There is no point in further discussion. Anyway it’s a contradiction; if they had bigger fish to fry they would not be herding folk into camps now would they?
Trying to say one nation can do what it likes but not another is a very poor argument.
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Not a contradiction, no heartlessness. I just tried to argue from a PRC POV. The camps thing is a crude theory, most probably mean spirited propaganda and should be dismissed until we have clarification. And then it becomes a case to be discussed at UN level, not a reason for US/NATO to invade and steal natural resources!
Anyway it’s internal politics, not geopolitics. Why areyou too blind to see that most important difference?
“Trying to say one nation can do what it likes but not another is a very poor argument.”
Yes, it would if I had said that. Which, again, I didn’t.
Most of us kept our mouths shut and didn’t complain about the unspeakable evils you did on Cuba, Chile, Nicaragua, Ieranlots of other nations.
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… Iran, Iraq, Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia lots of other nations. And now your next victim is the Ukraine, which you sacrifice in a spectacularly whiney manner. And still you complain about China playing hardball on a very minor minority? Doesn’t gel with me and most other people on earth. And that is exactly what dsq’s you from the shiny house on the hill, the leader of the free world but makes you just some brutal and selfish hegemon.
Anyway, you can whine and scream now and locking me out of your bubble (which I have left long ago anyway), you won’t stop the flow of time. We, the West, had our many centuries of growth and power and stewardship of this planet. And boy, did we fuk it up. 😮 Now it’s time for some worthier people, with better theories and models, to take over. The Asian aera has begun, if you want or not. You may scream and kick on your way into the sobering cell, it won’t help.
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Be careful when you argue an extremist POV without caveats and clarifications, you may find yourself subsumed into a mindset you did not intend.
Actually internal politics and geopolitics are parts of the whole. They reveal the overall mindset. Thus on the face of it China’s aid policy in Africa can be seen as generous and on a global scale neighbourly. However the treatment of a section of its own population raises the question is China using backdoor colonialism, and getting mired in the problems all colonial powers find?
On a global scale to insist that one large power is always wrong and the others have ‘reasons’ is myopic at best, naive at worst.
Large nations, empires and the constructs in between have always acted in interventionists ways. The degrees of scale and methods are the only measuring sticks.
To repeat it simply will not do on a global scale to give one a free pass and the other not.
One day the ones you excuse will come in some form knocking at your door and insist on a friendly visit.
And that will often not be in a way you expected nor realised.
None of them have clean hands. No nation or people are wholly innocent.
Humanity is flawed.
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Well said, Roger!
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Thanks Jill
If anyone ever feels suddenly and irrationally flippant, I suggest reading the BBCi World news page and then flip onto the regional items; that’ll bring them back down to a more sober mindset.
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Sigh. They read just like they hear — only what is convenient to their per-conceived notions. Remember that old saying, “A mind is a terrible thing to waste”? Seems to be a lot of waste these days, doesn’t there?
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There is a certain line of thought about the actions of the Allies in WWII, one of those ‘We don’t talk about it’.
This being that both Germany and Japan were to be hammered so very badly that all the previous and persistent militarism would be knocked out of them, for good.
Sometimes History suggests a folk or nation will just inadvertently invite that, though rarely does the lesson stick; Germany and Japan being examples of learning.
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Which says, yet again, that if we don’t study and learn the lessons of history, sooner or later we will repeat them. Today, the U.S. wants to whitewash history, cut out all the bad stuff and teach only that which has a rosy glow. Recipe for disaster.
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Eventually you get a backfire.
An extreme example was the notion in the 1920s that WWI was nothing but blunder and a complete waste, instead of half blunders and a great deal of waste. (still a common fallacy)
This led to a common idea that no more wars must be fought, despite the evidence of growing aggressive dictatorships, putting a break of being alert to the danger.
If you don’t keep on open mind on history, events will swamp you.
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True enough.
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HEAR HEAR Roger! Very well stated Sir! Bravo. 👏🏻
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Thanks.
It’s a mess. It’s a mess that’s 5,000 (or was that 7,000?) years old.
There are folk, and groups out there doing their best to use other than guns;
https://saadiahaq.wordpress.com/
The Human Lens
Let us wish them all the very best
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Agreed! And thnx for the link to The Human Lens. By the title it sounds right up my alley with a cup of tea or good brandy. 🍵🥃😉
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Glad to spread the word.
It is a wonderful site to remind us on constant struggles and some triumphs in the places which don’t make the headlines in The West.
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In other words: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” ~ George Santayana
And still people cannot stop falling for populistic asswipes and empire narratives like hopeless drug addicts. Deep inside they know they’re wrong and self-destructing but it’s a too bitter pill to swallow. So they are clinging onto their hardly democratic leaders while they watch those leaders destroying their countries and societies.
As becomes evident right now in the recent case of the shrinking West vs Russian Federation, People’s Republic China, India, Brasil, Iran, Iraq et al.
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Hahaha. 😄 Well, that’s ONE version (of multitudes) of current world events—it’s yours O.F. 🤭 Can you quote anyone from BEFORE the 19th-century? That was part of my reason for quoting Cicero—if you read & comprehended the intent and content of my comment to Roger. Go reread it a few more times. Let it sink in. 😉
In the larger broader picture of the last 5-10 decades (a very small window of time) and beyond, it isn’t at all about what the “Russian Federation, People’s Republic China, India, Brasil, Iran, Iraq et al” are doing right now… successfully or via hyped propaganda which I know you are very susceptible to Orca by your unfounded comments and continued LACK of citations to their support.
Nevertheless, truly democratic Republics will be around for a very, very, VERY long time to come. No matter how many “asswipes” try to hang-on to their feeble power, individual liberties and freedoms will ALWAYS—for many many generations to come!—be lurking to be liberated… FOR ALL PEOPLES… and defended and protected as long as Homo sapiens exist on this planet. Period. You can take that to the bank as a full unlimited lifetime guarantee O.F. 😁
Regards
P.S. Don’t bother replying to this. I have no interest whatsoever in your unfounded, unreasonable propaganda. Thanks. ❤️
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Well said, Prof! Thank you!!!
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Have to agree there.
There are folk who don’t give up though. People in vast swathes of nations from Pakistan to Philippines for instance
Check out The Human Lens:
https://saadiahaq.wordpress.com/
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Pingback: “They may ring their bells now; before long they will be wringing their hands. –“ Robert Walpole 1739. | Ned Hamson's Second Line View of the News
Thank you, Ned!!!
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Thanks, Ned!!!
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