A Wise Man Speaks Words Of Wisdom

Posted on by under Bits 'n Pieces, education, Environmental Issues, Racism & Bigotry, religion, Social commentary

I avoid religious discussions here on Filosofa’s Word as much as is possible or feasible, for I am non-religious and feel I don’t have a horse in this race, but every now and then I tread softly into the topic.  There are two ‘men of the cloth’, religious leaders, for whom I have great respect:  Padre Steve Dundas, a recently retired Navy chaplain, and John Pavlovitz, a writer, pastor, and activist from Wake Forest, North Carolina.  These two men are not ‘preachy’, but are fair, open-minded men who actually live their beliefs rather than weaponizing religion as so many today are doing.

I’m sharing a portion of John Pavlovitz’ most recent blog post today because it defines what I see as being wrong with the Christianity that we see today and why people are turning away from their religion, leaving their churches.  This is only an excerpt and I highly recommend you read John’s entire post in which he addresses American churches, but here is a portion of it …

Dear American Church, You’re Dying

October 12, 2022 / John Pavlovitz

You’re dying because of your willful ignorance.

People are tired of your war on Science.
They are sick of your arguing with Biology.
They are exhausted by your attacks on women.
They are horrified by your justifications of racism.
They despise your posturing nationalism.
They know the earth is round.
They know it is billions, not thousands of years old.
They know dinosaurs walked it.
They know that it is warming rapidly.
They know people here don’t choose their sexuality.
They know whoever and whatever God is—doesn’t appoint Presidents or hand out weapons or attack people with tornadoes.

You’re dying because of your devotion to cruelty.

People watch you dig in your heels against others because of their gender identity and sexual orientation; the way you continually exact violence upon them, the way you try and blame God and the Bible for your fearful bigotry and your predatory behavior.
They’ve seen your intolerance to other religious traditions: how you vilify anyone who finds spirituality and meaning outside of your precise expression of Christianity, how you so easily disregard the faith stories of those who don’t reflect your own.
They’ve watched you so revel in being the bully to those you were originally called to protect.

You’re dying because of your complicity in violence.

Good people have seen you so often be a safe haven for misogynists, domestic abusers, sexual predators, and white supremacists—who all receive protection in your antiquated words, in your personality cults, and in your enabling culture.
They’ve heard your explicit silence in the face of a brutal and rising flood of anti-Semitism, of open racism, of hostility toward immigrants,  of attacks on Asian people and Muslims.
They see your pastors and leaders misuse their positions and leverage their influence to victimize the most vulnerable and to serve as scapegoats for discrimination.
They’ve watched you be the last, hateful holdout in matters of gender equality, racial diversity, sexuality, and theological difference; lagging behind almost everyone in the world in the kind of goodness you say you aspire to.

And this from a man who has been a Christian pastor for some 25 years.  Christians would do well to listen more to him and less to the evangelists like Franklin Graham, Tony Perkins, Pat Robertson, et al.

49 thoughts on “A Wise Man Speaks Words Of Wisdom”

  1. I am a little late to comment on this as it was posted five days ago. I am concerned as well about the state of religion today, but mainly because many are lukewarm or have abandoned core principles. I am concerned with a Methodist church which ordains this person: https://religionnews.com/2021/04/15/first-drag-queen-certified-as-a-candidate-for-united-methodist-ministry-speaking-in-a-new-way-to-new-people/. I’ve also listened to his words on God and religion are very bizarre. Is our civilization progressing or just regressing back to the mean?

    The religion to fear today is that of Leftism (progressivism, statism). It acts like a religion but has little room for mercy or redemption for those who disagree with its principles. You decry free speech these days, but do you ever wonder who should the arbiter of the debate? Voltaire said many years ago: “To Learn Who Rules Over You, Simply Find Out Who You Are Not Allowed To Criticize.” Controlling free speech, limiting the debate, ensures that the truth will be even more elusive than it already is today. Controlling speech is dangerous, yet you are drawn to it because you see it as the new best way to defeat your opponent (who you also see as ever-so-dangerous).

    I engaged in an extensive debate with Professor Taboo a few weeks back. He is of the mind that the religious right along with Republicans are attempting to create a theocracy in America. This notion is so far off-base. I took three posts to examine all the issues he brought to the table and included many of his own words in my posts. After many days of debate, I finally was able to obtain a list of what he believes as evidence for the creation of a theocracy. Abortion, book banning, LGBTQ rights, recent court cases, and party platforms are the evidence he provided. I counter each of these in the third of this series of posts. I address many of the professor’s other comments in the first two posts. The author above includes some other topics which he sees as problems in the church today. He is off base as well. I should like to address his comments as well very soon.

    https://seek-the-truth.com/category/faith/

    Your friend Keith urged just a bit of moderation above. He is right. The church today is under attack. Cardinal Francis George said these prophetic warning a few years back: “I will die in my bed; my successor will die in prison; his successor will die in the public square.” We are re-living the French revolution in America today. They attacked religion, tore down all the institutions, and then executed people in the street.

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    • I read this post again and I can hardly fathom how a pastor could say such things. It is not that the churches don’t contain people who are ignorant, cruel, violent, and all the rest. Every segment of our society contains people of such sort. These are all failings of human nature throughout time. But why does the pastor single out the churches as if they are leading the decline and not simply following it? He is echoing the themes of progressivism which in itself is a competing religion to traditional faiths. Does he not realize this?

      I think folks on this site would argue the solution is less religion. Religion is dangerous, controlling, and the source of so many contemporary problems are the themes I have heard from you folks. The pastor is correct that people are leaving the churches, but the problem is that so few are truly engaged in the debate. So few are aware of the perceptions of folks like you. Folks in my church would pray for folks like y’all, yet you blame them for the ills of our society. They don’t understand how you feel about them or why. They would be shocked to hear what you say. The other problem is that so many among today’s churches are lukewarm. There is no real passion to tackle the problems of the day. This is our mission, but the churches are lacking. In Revelation, John talks about the seven churches of Asia minor. Some of the harshest criticism:

      I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither [c]cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be [e]zealous and repent. (Revelation 3:15-19)

      Many churches have lost their way, but they are not leading the decline we see today. They simply are not standing up against it. They are joining in or looking the other way. Furthermore, the churches today have no real power. The power today is with the institutions controlled by the Left: education, entertainment, corporate America, and bureaucracy. The church indeed had far more power and years past and as Lord Acton says absolute power corrupts absolutely. It corrupted the church in years past and the absolute power today, the power of Leftist institutions, is corrupting America today.

      I would hope this pastor is not calling for an end to religion like many of you are. Perhaps, he sees a need to reform the church. I would advocate for a spiritual (not political ) revolution as well. The pastor and I just see the real problem as something very different. He is caught up in the false idols and outrageous notions presented today. They are not of God, but he thinks they are. He is not going to reform the churches in this manner. He is only going to weaken their foundations further.

      I offer a counter to pastor Pavlovitz: California pastor John McArthur who talks about how the Left, particularly Governor Newsome has co-opted and misused the word of God. McArthur sees the problem for what it is. It is a corruption of religion from the outside. The devil himself believes in God and quotes from scripture as well. He is speaking through folks like Governor Newsome today.

      John MacArthur Addresses Governor Newsom – YouTube

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  2. I see no difference between religious and non-religious people. Our behaviours good or bad are simply inherent human emotions that we cannot escape from and many cannot control. The religious beliefs we have may have some positive bearing on the most dedicated faithful, however on the majority it is not all good, from my observation of Christians or any religious faithful with claims their worship of god makes people moral and a much better person are part of their delusions. Religious beliefs have actually lowered morals and have been responsible for some serious crimes, for example peodephilia by thousands of church leaders and members.

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    • Well, the problem I have with that philosophy is that it gives people an easy out for bad behaviour … they can simply say it was their ‘inherent human emotions that they could not escape from or control’ when they are racists, or engage in violence, cheat on a test, or rape a child. No, we CAN control our behaviour and we must be responsible for our actions, else the entire world ends in chaos. Now, that said, I don’t think religion is the answer, especially when various religions and sects each make up their own rules for what constitutes ‘good behaviour.’ Religion is responsible for a great deal of the bigotry in its many forms throughout the world and frankly, I think the world would be better if people simply concentrated on being humanitarians.

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      • I will elaborate on my comment, and I have to disagree that we all can control our emotions because I believe many crimes are perpetrated by people who often have some mental health issues, minor issues they may be, but the most serious crimes will be committed by people with the serious mental health problems. I do not believe the sane people, if any exist are motivated to crimes by not being in control of their emotional feelings, but of course so called sane people can act irrationally and often regret it. We certainly have seen the seriously insane people in action many times more than we would like.

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        • I agree about the mental health issues, large or small, but in general, we must all be accountable for our actions. Even people with mental health issues know that murder is wrong, know that stealing is wrong, know that raping a child is wrong. If we just take the approach that nobody is ever responsible for their actions, can you imagine the world we would live in? It’s bad enough now, but I don’t think any of us would like living in a world where there was never any accountability. Most of us wouldn’t even reach adulthood, I think.

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          • Sorry I know I am not often clear with my writing but to address this I am definitely not believing there should be non-accountability for criminal acts, however my point is that having serious mental problems to overcome for some people often is a step beyond their ability to act rationally such as a rich person caught shoplifting. Take a mass shooter as an extreme example. Most of them take their own lives and without a doubt they would have to be extremely unstable because they had lost control through what are supposedly recalcitrant emotions that are in a state of conflict that runs counter to their evaluative judgements, but regardless of the cognitive psychology, all criminals of course should be punished.

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    • An excellent older movie is K-Pax and the line in it from the supposedly alien is “everybody knows right from wrong.” So called psychopaths feel no guilt or empathy, but the do intellectually “know” it’s wrong. They just do it anyway. And yes religion has nothing to do with it and is often just an excuse to do what people want to do deep down inside.

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  3. I too have abandoned organised religion. It seems to be either wishy washy or bigotted although I know some wonderful people who hang in there. The zealots seem to have a ‘cut and paste’ Holy bokk – cut it up and only paste into the new version the bits they like, that support their world view which involves a too small God. I am drawn increasingly to the older spiritual traditions of living in community with other people, other non-humans and the Earth itself with a strong emphasis on finding my unique role therein.

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    • Like you, I do know some wonderful people who are religious and actually live their religion rather than weaponizing it to harm others. Yes, the zealots are another breed altogether … their religion is bigotry in all forms. I like your idea … communal living with all species, taking care of Earth, finding your unique role therein. It reminds me of the ways of the Indigenous Peoples … at one with Earth and with all life on Earth.

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  4. Amen. Amen. Amen.
    If anyone has the stomach for it, you can go back and read about the Western Christian Chruch’s scam of the Middle Ages ‘Indulgences’. You can look at reform movements who broke away from the Catholic Church for the freedom to believe as they saw fit….and the freedom to persecute those who did not believe as the reformers saw fit.
    There is not one religious movement which has not had its own clutch of rabid fanatics, cold office holders, opportunists, snake oil merchants and the rest.
    And yet the tragedy is that at the core of each religion there is a code of behaviour which is supposed to be benevolent, charitable and supportive.
    The religions are not the problem, it’s the folk who cloak themselves in the religion while embracing evil, greed vanity or blind fanaticism.
    As it is with each democratic political movement.
    As is it with each Economic Theory
    As it is with each social grouping.
    As it is.
    Think of it this way folks. How many times have you heard your most favourite song ruined by a bad performer who is currently nevertheless fashionable ? How many times have you seen your most favourite film plot shredded by bad acting or a ‘new’ interpretation? How many times have you seen your favourite TV series go down the tubes because a new company, producer or writing team has taken over?
    That’s a very mild version of the burden us believers bear when we see how beliefs used for profit, gain and hate.

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    • All good points, my friend. As I told Keith, the rotten ones are giving the entirety a bad name, or as Keith replied, one bad apple does spoil the whole bunch. And, as I say to some of my bible-quoting friends, talk is cheap … don’t TELL me what you believe, SHOW me. And then, 9 times out of 10 when they show me, I walk away in disgust. From the little I know about Christianity, it does not condone bigotry, but you’d never know it from listening to the holier-than-thou evangelicals in the U.S. today.

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      • As in politics Jill, so it is in religion. Core beliefs are ditched to suit prejudices and herd instinct.
        You look at the very core of Islam or Hinduism and you see ‘fair play’ and treat others well there… and yet, look at the world today.
        Heck, there are even violent Buddhist groups.
        And when it comes to ‘Democracy’
        That often translates into:
        ‘You have the freedom to agree with what I say….’
        Go figure🤷‍♀️🤷‍♂️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♂️

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  5. Dear All,

    Another person that we should remember is the late John Shelby “Jack” Spong (June 16, 1931 – September 12, 2021), an American bishop of the Episcopal Church, whose “Twelve Points for Reform” were elaborated in his 2001 book entitled A New Christianity for a New World:

    Theism, as a way of defining God, is dead. So most theological God-talk is today meaningless. A new way to speak of God must be found.
    Since God can no longer be conceived in theistic terms, it becomes nonsensical to seek to understand Jesus as the incarnation of the theistic deity. So the Christology of the ages is bankrupt.
    The Biblical story of the perfect and finished creation from which human beings fell into sin is pre-Darwinian mythology and post-Darwinian nonsense.
    The virgin birth, understood as literal biology, makes Christ’s divinity, as traditionally understood, impossible.
    The miracle stories of the New Testament can no longer be interpreted in a post-Newtonian world as supernatural events performed by an incarnate deity.
    The view of the cross as the sacrifice for the sins of the world is a barbarian idea based on primitive concepts of God and must be dismissed.
    Resurrection is an action of God. Jesus was raised into the meaning of God. It therefore cannot be a physical resuscitation occurring inside human history.
    The story of the Ascension assumed a three-tiered universe and is therefore not capable of being translated into the concepts of a post-Copernican space age.
    There is no external, objective, revealed standard written in scripture or on tablets of stone that will govern our ethical behavior for all time.
    Prayer cannot be a request made to a theistic deity to act in human history in a particular way.
    The hope for life after death must be separated forever from the behavior control mentality of reward and punishment. The Church must abandon, therefore, its reliance on guilt as a motivator of behavior.
    All human beings bear God’s image and must be respected for what each person is. Therefore, no external description of one’s being, whether based on race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, can properly be used as the basis for either rejection or discrimination.

    Spong was one of the first American bishops to ordain a woman into the clergy, in 1977. He was the first to ordain an openly gay man, Robert Williams, in 1989. In his 1991 book entitled “Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism: A Bishop Rethinks the Meaning of Scripture”, Spong argued that St Paul was homosexual.

    Yours sincerely,
    SoundEagle

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  6. I’m a regular reader of John Pavlovitz posts. And this was particularly good.

    I take Pavlovitz to represent what Christianity is supposed to be. Far too many people who call themselves “Christian” instead follow a religion that is far worse.

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      • He’ll have his work cut out for him with me then Rawgod. Jill could tell you that when I become BLOW (BenevolentT Leader of the World) no religion will be taught in Schools , there will be instead a series of life rules based on the care of others taught. Based loosely on the rules Knights of Old promised to uphold. Days of Action like care in the community will be promoted. Children in abusive homes will be removed and will live in Government Home Based Communities with approved carers. Religion will be replaced by hands on care and concern for others which might be enhanced by Religions who also promote the same principles. Maybe we can teach a new generation that extreme views of racial hatred are not acceptable
        Hugs. The Chief Buthidar..

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        • Hugs back at you David. I would prefer all children grow up in protective communities. We never know what parents can devise to abuse their children. Many don’t even know they are abusers, nor do the children know they are being abused — until it is too late.
          The good parents would be the parents in these communities. Why keep their love only for their own children when mbany children need love but but get safe love. I speak as an abused child. Though I have dealt with it for myself, I do not want any child to suffer even half of what I suffered. To paraphrase my sperm donor, “I’m only doing this because I love you.” Love like that no one needs.

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          • …but get no save love… My fingers have stopped listening to my brain. They no longer tupe what I think, but I read it the way I thought it — until I see the publushed version

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          • Actually, in the beginning that was David’s preference as well … that all children be raised in protective communities, but I convinced him that family is important and that some parents are, in fact, the best possible caregivers.

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            • Which is why, i my vision, they would be thusly employed. The nuclear family does not work. It never has, and never will. I have been saying this for years. But no one listens, right, David?
              The best child caregivers are those who know how to love and nurture children. So make that their full time job.

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              • Right Rawgod. And as employers, the States will be able o come down heavily on any Employee who breaches regulations about what opinions can be passed on to children in their care. So no Racism or Sexism or opinions about one Religion over another. Not an exhaustive list.
                Hugs

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                • A number of… I mysef know a HUGE NUMBER of nuclrear families that are so dysfunctional that they make the successes seem irrelevvent. The majority of pe0ple 8n this world, especially in Ancient-Greece-based societies are screwed up, mainly by how they were brought up. This world is not run by functional people, it is governed by mostly dysfunyonal people. And that is why we ABSOLUTELY MUST try something new if we want to save the world for our descendents, and all the other living beings extant upon this Earth.

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    • I hear you! But Pavlovitz is more of a humanitarian than anything, and I really do respect his views. Nah … nobody is likely to make a believer out of either of us, but if all Christians thought like John Pavlovitz and Padre Steve, we wouldn’t have people trying to dominate, to take away women’s rights and LGBTQ rights, to force their views into law.
      Cwtch

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  10. Jill, I saw this as well. I agree, but we should remind ourselves not all churches and houses of worship are alike. From my volunteer recruiting days for a working homeless family shelter, outreach oriented churches and synagogue are the best sources of volunteers and advocacy. We should not lose sight of that. Yet, Pastor Pavlovich’s point is well taken. Keith

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    • I don’t think anyone is attacking all churches, Keith, though most do have some part that is readily attackable in today’s world. That some churches, and their congregants, do good is easily seen. But when those same congregants give voice to bigotry, racism, genderism, etc., it is just as easy to see where changes need to be made.
      In my mind belief is a personal thing, everyone should be able to believe whatever they want, as long as they do not push those beliefs on anyone, especially their own children. And as long as their beliefs do not cause harm or hurt to others.
      I chose a long time ago to stop believing in deities of any flavour, choosing instead to believe in life, and the connection between all living beings. This gives me, personally, a responsibility to help all living beings, no matter who or what they are.
      Most living things live naturally, doing as they need to do to survive. But humans are different. We seem to have a need to uplift ourselves while stepping on others, not caring what happens to those who get stepped on. I am not saying “all people” are like that, but there are enough to give the human race a bad reputation. And many of those responsible for the bad rep are represented in the many religions of the world (as well as political affiliations, economic affiliations, nationalities, etc etc etc), who feel their beliefs/ideas are better than anyone else’s.
      If I could do one thing in this world to make the world a better place to live, it would be to help everyone have their personal beliefs, but to stop them from sharing those beliefs with anyone else.
      This might seem restrictive to some, especially those who feel the need to share of themselves. But in the end it is ultimately permissive, because as it is everyone believes differently anyway. Even those within a particular religion have their own interpretations of what and how to believe. Everyone deserves to have that same right, too!

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      • I agree with you except for the keeping your beliefs to yourself part. And I agree wholeheartedly about not pushing them on others and certainly not acting with superiority and arrogance as the fundies do.
        But we should be comfortable enough in our own skin to nicely say, if asked, how we personally believe. Who knows, they may feel the same or feel how we believe is worth looking into.
        It’s all about the very ultimate truth that no one really knows and that arrogance has absolutely no place in these discussions.

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        • Maybe I didn’t say it quite right, I guess, but I do not think beliefs should be spoken of unless someone asks. But that is a slippery slope in itself, as some people are going to say, “Ask me what I believe. I have an inside track on Truth.” or something to that effect.
          Asking from curiosity is no problem. It’s human to be curious. I know it is also human to want to spread your beliefs, but it is counterproductive to real freedom.
          My apologies, Mary.

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          • No apology necessary at all. And if some stranger or someone you didn’t know well should ask, you could certainly be somewhat evasive. I was thinking more of a closer friend..etc. someone who genuinely wanted to know.

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    • Yes, what you say is true … there are some who are truly dedicated to doing good works and who do not attempt to convert everyone they see, who accept and even welcome diversity. And those probably outnumber the bad ones, but like in everything else, the bad ones are giving the entire Christian faith a bad name, for their voices are loud and they are the ones getting the media attention.

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      • Jill, the bad apples spoil the bunch, always have, no matter the subject or group. This is why it is so important for groups to police themselves, first and foremost. The Catholic Church is a great example of failing to do that. Keith

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        • You just had to plant an earworm, didn’t you? Now I have that song by The Osmonds stuck in my head!!! But seriously, yes, the Catholic Church is a perfect example. Instead of policing themselves, they engaged in decades of coverup and now the truth is biting them hard.

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