Meanwhile In Michigan … Justice!

Posted on by under Election 2020, History, Law and justice, Political commentary, Social commentary

Political “good” news is rare these days, so when we find some, we seize it!  (We’ve learned to redefine “good” over the last decade, but that’s a story for another day) Some good news came out of Michigan this week, as Heather Cox Richardson notes in part of her daily newsletter yesterday …

Then, today, Michigan’s attorney general Dana Nessel charged sixteen fake electors who signed fake certificates claiming that Trump had won Michigan’s electoral votes in 2020 with felonies: forgery, conspiracy to commit forgery, election law forgery, conspiracy to commit election law forgery, publishing a counterfeit record, and conspiring to publish a counterfeit record.

The sixteen Republicans met in the basement of the state Republican Party’s headquarters and signed fake documents claiming that they were the state’s legitimate electors and that Trump had won the state. Their actions were part of a plan to claim that the electoral votes of certain states were “contested,” allowing then–vice president Mike Pence to reject the votes of those states and throw the election to Trump.

The fake electors attested they were “the duly elected and qualified electors for president and vice president of the United States of America for the state of Michigan,” Nessel said. “That was a lie. They weren’t the duly elected and qualified electors, and each of the defendants knew it.” “The false electors’ actions undermine the public’s faith in the integrity of our elections and not only violated the spirit of the laws enshrining and defending our democracy, but we believe also plainly violated the laws by which we administer our elections in Michigan and peaceably transfer power in America,” Nessel said. “This plan, to reject the will of the voters and undermine democracy, was fraudulent and legally baseless.”

Text messages at the time show that the sixteen were “all asked to keep silent [so] as to not draw attention to what the other states were doing similar to ours!” One of those charged was former co-chair of the state Republican committee, Meshawn Maddock, who called the charges “political persecution.”  

Legal analyst Renato Mariotti noted that the charges against the sixteen fake electors send a powerful message for those at the state level who might consider abetting Trump in the future. Those fake electors aren’t part of Trump’s inner circle who might get some kind of a reward for their trouble. They are just party operatives who are facing an expensive, stressful, and humiliating experience that could lead to hefty fines or imprisonment. Their example might well make others think carefully before they sign on to similar plans.

I’m told they could spend quite a long time – a decade or more – in prison and while I hate to say it, that is as it should be.  First, because they knowingly attempted to overthrow an election that would have had grievous consequences reaching far into the future; and second because this is precedent-setting, and they must serve as a deterrent for any who consider similar actions in the future.  If they just get a slap on the wrist, that wouldn’t be much of a deterrent now, would it?

The sixteen are:

  • Kathy Berden, 70, of Snover
  • William (Hank) Choate, 72, of Cement City
  • Amy Facchinello, 55, of Grand Blanc
  • Clifford Frost, 75, of Warren
  • Stanley Grot, 71, of Shelby Township
  • John Haggard, 82, of Charlevoix
  • Mari-Ann Henry, 65, of Brighton
  • Timothy King, 56, of Ypsilanti
  • Michele Lundgren, 73, of Detroit
  • Meshawn Maddock, 55, of Milford
  • James Renner, 76, of Lansing
  • Mayra Rodriguez, 64, of Grosse Pointe Farms
  • Rose Rook, 81, of Paw Paw
  • Marian Sheridan, 69, of West Bloomfield
  • Ken Thompson, 68, of Orleans
  • Kent Vanderwood, 69, of Wyoming

Every single one is over the age of 50, certainly old enough to have known better!

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60 thoughts on “Meanwhile In Michigan … Justice!”

  2. They and their ilk are brainwashed and held in a cult. I have no idea how to judge them. My biggest worry is what if they have to be put down because they are incurable rabid dogs. I’m not sure Justice requires Judgement.

    Liked by 2 people

  3. I’m going to wait until this case is adjudicated before I rejoice. There are still too many variables to be considered. But I do hope they are at least found guilty of bring stupid enough to sign their names to a document.
    But I am glad they did!

    Liked by 3 people

    • The only thing I can see that might absolve them is if they are all suffering from dementia and were somehow coerced into signing on as fake electors. Otherwise, if they were of sound mind, I can see no excuse that could possibly mitigate their guilt in attempting to literally overthrow a duly elected government.

      Liked by 2 people

      • “The Fraud Watch Network has found that many scam victims report feeling lonely and isolated from family and friends. That makes them susceptible to the fake friendliness of professional thieves.” AARP Foundation
        Sympathy for the devil I guess. Old people sometimes have this weird smell too. 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

        • Y’know … I never thought about that, but now that you mention it, I think it makes sense! That would explain why they target the elderly so often! Heh heh … just remember, Richard, you are approaching that pinnacle!

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  4. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? Jill, on most things you write about I happen to have a similar perspective, but when it comes to crime and punishment we are poles apart. To some degree this is understandable. The US comprises 5% of the world’s population yet interns 25% of the world’s prison population. I’m yet to be convinced that Americans are more criminally inclined than anywhere else. If harsh sentences were effective, America would have lower crime rates than the rest of the developed world. It doesn’t.

    But more seriously, you judged those charged without hearing the evidence. All that has been established is that there is a prima facie case for the defendants to answer. Why not leave it there until the evidence has been heard in full? Baying for blood at this stage is not helpful. If, after all the evidence has been heard, they are found guilty, that is when it’s appropriate to discuss punishment/retribution/deterrence, not before.

    Let me ask you Jill, is there any circumstance you would be willing to break a law if you sincerely believed doing so would prevent a much greater harm? There are some circumstances where I’d like to think I’d have the courage to do so, although when push comes to shove, fear of the consequences might prevent me from doing so. Neither you nor I know what was going through their mind at the time. For all we know some of them might have been duped into acting as they did.

    I stopped reading at “The sixteen are:” on principle. Unless they are found guilty their identity is irrelevant. So I apologise if there’s later content I have missed that may have a bearing on your perspective.

    Liked by 2 people

    • They knew what they were doing and they knew they lied or they would not have been charged, which only occurs through finding enough evidence for the court to prove their case. They don’t t waste their time otherwise…

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      • Well, in that case, why bother with a trial?

        I have served on juries, and in one trial ten of the jurors thought just like that – if the accused had been charged, he must have been guilty. I was one of two people who voted not guilty half an hour into our deliberation. To this day I do not know if the defendant actually committed the crime or not, but the prosecution was poorly presented and had a few glaring anomalies that satisfied me from the outset that he was not guilty beyond reasonable doubt. The next two days was one of the most harrowing events of my life as I presented my case as to why a finding of guilty would be dangerous. In total we voted five or six times before the unanimous vote of not guilty. Would you believe that the juror who held out the longest was a woman who had decided the accused was guilty because “he had shifty eyes”. I kid you not. The experience has persuaded me that should I ever have to face a trial, I’d forgo a jury and choose a judge-only trial.

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          • With regards to public statements he has made, including his claims of a rigged election/over fraud, absolutely not. I have seen/heard the evidence myself. But with regards to the charges that have taken months and years to collate sufficient information to bring about prosecutions, I will remain neutral until the evidence and defence has been presented in open court. As much as I think he is a danger to the world and should be stopped, I will not prejudge any of the charges, nor do I wish him to be found guilty of any of them unless they are proved beyond reasonable doubt to be true. What I will not do is allow my personal dislike for the man to persuade me to wish him guilty of any of the charges against him.

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            • I think the main difference between the US and Australia is that here, since we are such a society based on “he who has the most money..gets away with anything usually” rather than equal treatment in the courts regardless of wealth, is a huge difference.
              If any of us had done what Trump allegedly has done, we would long ago been on trial, convicted and now be in jail. That’s the difference in “money talks” as do bought and paid for judges, politicians and lawyers

              Liked by 2 people

              • Just because you are bought doesn’t mean you are paid for. I myself can be had pretty cheap but it is always an isolated incident. Payment is required for every act and no one gets a freebie. 🙂

                Liked by 2 people

              • I’m not sure why you chose Australia as an exception, but I would argue that no matter what country you consider, having wealth puts one at an advantage when it comes to affording the best defence. As far as I’m aware, in Australia, as in your country and mine, one pays for one’s own defence counsel.

                While I live in the least corrupt nation in the world, I would like to think that in both Australia (at tenth) and the US (at 26th) the time it takes to bring about a prosecution is based on the relative difficulty of gathering sufficient evidence to bring charges. And from what I see regarding the charges against Trump, the required evidence has been very difficult to gather, in large part because of the way he operates.

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                • I thought you lived in Australia…sorry about that. And you are correct in what you say about innocent until proven guilty, it’s just America, as are some other countries, is so corrupt. If trump is never held accountable, it will be a grave injustice to our democracy and could negatively affect other countries, as well.

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    • Barry … you have given me cause to stop and do some serious thinking. First, though, let me address the easy part … the fact that the U.S. has only 5% of the world’s population, yet 25% of the world’s prison population. The reason can be summed up in a single word: guns. The gun culture here and the laws that have (or rather have not) been enacted favour gun ownership with few or no restrictions. We have the most lax gun laws of any nation, so … it stands to reason that our country also has the highest crime rate. In addition, people are imprisoned here for things they might not be in another country, such as drug use.

      And now onto the thoughtful part. You’ve made very good points and I agree with you from a strictly intellectual standpoint. Unfortunately, like most humans, emotion plays a role in my thoughts, as well, and when I ponder what the results of these people’s actions could have been … it clouds my vision, I think. Sometimes I can step back and view a situation more objectively, but I’m struggling to do that with this one. However, I do see your point and they ARE, by law, innocent until proven guilty, so I will refrain from writing about them again until such time as they have had a fair trial. We dodged a bullet in 2020, but barely, and if these people did what is said they did, they helped pull the trigger that sent that bullet. Thank you, Barry, for making me stop and do some soul-searching.

      Is there, you ask, any situation in which I might break the law to prevent what I saw as a much greater harm? Certainly. In fact, I can think of many such potential scenarios, especially where the life of another, an innocent person, is in danger. Or if the very foundation of the country I’ve spent 72 years in were threatened.

      Thank you again for bringing a different perspective to my thoughts on this … you did give me cause to stop and do some thinking, perhaps to adjust my views somewhat.

      Liked by 3 people

      • The more heated a divide in the becomes, the more need there is to hold emotions in check. And that applies especially to the US at this time. If us oldies can’t display a rational head, who can?

        Perhaps one advantage of being autistic is that we tend to be lead by rational/logical thought rather than emotional thought (Note: it’s a tendency, not a universalism). I have been accused on several occasions of being being too rational, not the least of which was when my then 13 year old daughter wanted to get her own way over a matter we’ve both long forgotten. She had tried every trick in the book to make me change my mind, then finally in exasperation she shouted “Oh! You’re too reasonable!” before stomping off to her bedroom, slamming the door behind her. My reply to maryplumbago above tells of an occasion where a rational head perhaps prevented a miscarriage of justice.

        But getting back to guns, there’s no doubt an element of truth to what you say. However, the US doesn’t seem to have a total crime rate that is significantly higher than other developed nations. What is apparent is the length of sentencing for a crime is significantly higher in the US. For example a first time drug offence the sentence is typically 5 or ten years whereas in other jurisdictions it’s likely to be less than one year. The average sentence for a property offence is 27 months in the US, 12 months in Canada and 7 months in the UK. Also in the US many crimes have mandatory sentences bypassing judicial discretion available elsewhere. There’s also fewer alternatives to prison than there is elsewhere. That’s the reason for my comment about harsh sentences in my original comment. They don’t work.

        Liked by 2 people

        • It goes back to just where you thought it would lead but CRT is forbidden. Guns got their start there but in the beginning. Long harsh prison sentences were away to recapture some of the lost labor and road gangs were used throughout the country into the 1940’s. They make between $25-$100 a month still making license plates and furniture at LCI. Now the finacial boys are in charge and prisons pay billions. Now we are just feeding the beast. When I was there they were able to feed everyone for $o.35 a meal, volume is key.

          Liked by 1 person

  8. It appears that most, if not all, were retired … and probably had time on their hands and needed something to make life interesting again! You know … create a little hullabaloo so folks would have something to talk about.

    Liked by 4 people

  9. For some of them a ten year sentence would be a death senbtence creating some handy martyrs for the Republicans.as well as enmity from th fasmilies. I’m not suggesting however that any of them should be tresated with kid-gloves because of their age. What I would re-iterate is that I feel the time for the end of the Republican Party
    is long overdue since they no longer have a political platform for the voters other than ‘Destroy what has gone before”and they are a party for just some of the population and will try any trick to appease them at the expense of the rest. This is not what a political party is meant to be nor how they are meant to behave..The Democrats have the opportunity to come out fighting in 2024 showing the whole population what they have to offer and to build a new system without the bribery sand corruption currently in evidence. I hope they do.

    Liked by 7 people

    • You are right that for … well, probably the majority of them … a ten-year sentence would be a death sentence, but … oh well. I don’t mean to sound cruel, but they KNEW that what they were doing was wrong, that it was against the law, against the Constitution, and against the people of this country! I have no empathy for a single one of them.

      I do agree with you about the Republican Party … they have allowed themselves to be a victim of rot. They tied their fortunes to a criminal egomaniacal ‘man’ who will trod over any who stand in his way. The party had a chance to rebuild after Trump left office, but instead of doing so, they continued to fawn over him, to worship him almost as a god, and now they deserve what they get. What does concern me, though, is that the Democratic Party seems to be coming unglued. There are now two who could destroy Biden’s chances in 2024, leaving the nation at the hands of an evil dictator, and why??? Because the Democrats think Biden is too old. No other reason. Never mind that he has proven his mental acuity time and time and time again, but if he trips over a sandbag that never should have been there in the first place, it’s front-page news for a week! Even some of my readers are wringing their hands, saying, “Oh, he’s too old”. Bullshit! If not Biden, then who? Sigh. People are not too bright sometimes.

      Liked by 5 people

  10. Jill, this is good news. The lesson to be learned follows the history of one Donald J. Trump. It is happens again and again, yet people think it will be different . WHEN YOU FLY TOO CLOSE TO THE TRUMP SUN, YOUR REPUTATION WILL GET BURNED. Just ask these Michiganders, just ask the January 6 insurrectionists, just ask Rudy Giuliani, Michael Cohen or other Trump attorneys, just ask the Trump Organization CFO, just ask Fox News and so on. Keith

    Liked by 5 people

      • Jill, Barry raises an important point. While I am happy that steps are being taken, these folks standing accused are not guilty at this point. When I reference Trump, I try to refer to actual and alleged crimes for which he is indicted. As of this writing, since becoming president, he has settled a fraud case with respect to personal use of Trump Foundation money paying back the $1.6 million he used before the Foundation was terminated and monies distributed (without anyone named Trump involved with the distribution process). The Trump Organization was found guilty of tax fraud and paid a fine of $1.6 million and his CFO served some time. He was found liable for defamation and sexual misconduct of E. Jean Carroll, now owing her $5 million after losing an appeal for a new trial. They each have charged each other with additional defamation accusations.

        He has been indicted for alleged crimes in taking and not fully cooperating with returning classified documents and he has been indicted with fraud for allegedly using company monies for payoffs to folks he had sexual trysts with.

        And, there is more to come. Keith

        Liked by 3 people

        • Yes, Barry did raise a couple of good points and gave me cause to stop and think, do a bit of soul-searching (see my response to him). When I think of the potential consequences we could have suffered as a result of their actions, though … I guess in my mind there is no excuse for what they did. But yes, Barry is much like you, the calmer voice, the voice of reason, the one we all need to listen to sometimes.

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  11. The best news I’ve heard in a long time. I just hope their ages don’t cause some sympathetic judge or jury to let them off because they are over 50. I noticed several are in their 70’s and 80’s. Well, I’m 80 and I certainly know the difference between right and wrong, legal and illegal, as well as the definition of insurrection. They should all receive the sentence they deserve no matter what the age. Adults are supposed to set examples for the young ones so they should also have to show the same younger ones what happens when you break the law.

    I hope Georgia will follow suit, and that the Rep. judge in Florida will take that into consideration and recuse herself from Trumps trial. Let the kids who will be the next generation of Presidents and Senators learn the right way from the popular way.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Yes, I agree that it is GREAT news, and also that I hope they don’t get the ‘kid glove’ treatment because of their ages. Like you, I’m 72 and I KNOW the difference between right and wrong. What they did was wrong. Full stop. That they are old enough to know better just makes their crime that much worse. I think that it’s looking good for Georgia to follow suit, but my fingers remain crossed.

      How’ve you been, my friend! I’m a bit under the weather and it seems I’m constantly chasing my tail trying to keep up, so please forgive me if I owe you a letter or haven’t visited your blog lately … I’ll get there soon, I promise! Love you, as always!

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      • No need to apologize. I haven’t done much with my site recently. Major MS exacerbation going on with partial blindness in my right eye, Total exhaustion and choking on food. Nothing new, but irritating. Been eating in my room so I won’t disgust everyone in the dining room when choking begins. At least I’ve managed to finish a dozen quilts for the childrens home. Had to find a new place for them after not being able to get in touch with the one who had been delivering them and now have two places who want them. Both of them will pick them up so they will be finding homes with new kids around the state. Read a lot of the stories on their web sites which reinforced the things my sister had already told me about but from a different angle. I wish I was about 50 uears younger so I could foster some of them. I MISS having kids around.

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        • I’m so sorry to hear you’re still having those problems … the partial blindness and the choking are particularly concerning … I hope there’s somebody nearby who knows how to do the Heimlich in case you ever need it. A dozen quilts???!!! You da woman! I’m very impressed, and love that you are donating them to such a worthy cause. Question: where do you get your fabric for the quilts? Do you just have a huge stash, or do you buy it? Unlike you, I don’t think I miss having little kids around … but I do understand. Are you still content where you are? Take care of yourself, my friend. 💖

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          • I brought some fabric with me but several people have been bringing me fabric that they bought with the idea of making a quilt but changed their minds after beginning. So I have inherited a few quilt tops plus a lot of fabric. I ran out of batting but have several fleece blankets that work well as batting. Also piecing a lot of end pieces of batting together to fit some of the smaller quilts. I think I’ll have to start piecing the backs now since most of the pieces are small but that will make them reversible so it will be fun to try.
            The choking is not something new and I’ve had a few blind spells in the past as well. I know what to do about the choking and prefer doing the Heimlich on myself to having someone else breaking my ribs in the attempt. Mostly I still love it here, but had to do without a few meals after the head nurse kept insisting I continue to eat in the dining room so they could watch me choke and decide what to do about itl. I finally told her if I had to choke in public I just wouldn’t eat because I’ve had a lot of therapy to learn how to take care of myself and by the time they would decide what to do I would be dead Some of them had already watched me rushing out of the room and did nothing anyway so I feel much safer eating in my room. I have also had a few episodes of total blindness in the past. As long as I know where I am I can make it to the restroom without problems. So far vision has come back after a few hours or in one case, three days. All part of the joy of MS.

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            • I well remember my mother-in-law asking us not to throw away the clothes the kids outgrew, but to give them to her, and in return, we received a number of beautiful quilts that would always bring back the memories of when the kids were little, for they were made of their old shirts, jammies, and jeans!

              That head nurse sounds like a real bitch! And I didn’t know it was possible to do the Heimlich on oneself! Just take care of yourself, dear friend. I had really hoped to come down there for a visit this summer, and I may yet get to, but for now I am having problems with dizziness and shakiness that make it not a wise idea for me to drive very much. Perhaps in early fall when it’s not so bloomin’ hot! Take care … thinking of you always!

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              • Sounds like you are the one who should take care. I agree about the heat. I haven’t left the building much since it began and the two times I went out was only to my son’s car with the a/c blasting away in there. How on earth did we ever make it through summer before air conditioning? And yes, it’s possible to do the Heimlich on yourself when the choking is first beginning and not too far down the esophagus. I’ve had to do it when the nurse I was lunching with (my sister) looked at me clutching my throat in what should have let her know I was in trouble, but she just told me to go to the bathroom and upchuck. I ran out of the restaurant (after tossing the money at her) and did the Heimlich in the parking lot so no one would think badly about the restaurant. L’il Sis strolled out a few minutes later and asked why I left like that. She eventually became a very good nurse/midwife, but at that moment I had a lot of bad thoughts about her ability to act fast enough in a real emergency.

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                • I remember many years ago, like 50 years ago, living in the mountains of Tennessee with no a/c, only windows, and it was hot, but … I don’t think it ever got like it is now. We have the heat, the humidity, the poor air quality, and now the smoke from the wildfires, too. I get winded just stepping outside to feed the birds in the mornings!

                  I asked daughter Chris, a RN, about self-Heimliching, and she said that yes, it is possible and she knew some who had successfully done it! I can see why you might have been questioning your sister’s ability to react quickly in a dire circumstance! Luckily it all turned out well, though. Now, take care my dear friend.

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                  • Glad I don’t have to go outside. My daughter lives in Frankfort and normally takes a long walk every evening but now she can’t breathe outside either. Makes me wonder if our overcast days are from the fires now. Don’t plan on going out to find out though.

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                    • Since we have had visible smoke from the wildfires, and we’re only about 100 miles north of you, I would guess that you do have some of the smoke. Last week, you could see it as soon as you stepped out, though nowhere near as bad as in New York!

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    • Yes, I have my fingers crossed for that one … from what I’m hearing, I think they may well do the right thing. The wheels of justice turn slowly, sometimes too slowly, but they DO turn.

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