A “Civil” Society? I Have Doubts

Posted on by under Election 2020, Election 2024, Law and justice, Political commentary, Social commentary

In my view, reasonably intelligent people with consciences do not resolve their differences with violence, but rather with words.  Listening to others’ views and reasons for their views is just as important as sharing your own views.  Most differences between such people – adults – are resolved peacefully and include some give-and-take, some compromise.  Such things as screaming, ranting, name-calling and bullying have never accomplished much of anything except to create hard feelings and leave issues unresolved, festering, only to resurface one day.  Violence has no place in a truly civil society.

Which begs the question, is the U.S. truly a “civil” society?

A woman in Texas was arrested for threatening to murder Judge Tanya Chutkan, the Washington D.C. judge who is presiding over the pending trial of Donald Trump on charges of attempting to overthrow the 2020 election on January 6th.  Her threats were particularly vile and extremely racist.

Every single prosecutor who has charged Donald Trump, from Alvin Bragg to Jack Smith to Fani Willis, has been threatened with violence and even death, as have their families!  Now, some might say that it’s just people blowing off steam, expressing their anger, but I beg to differ.  Remember last year when then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s husband was brutally beaten by a man who had a bone to pick with Speaker Pelosi?  Remember seeing Shay Moss and her mother Ruby Freeman testify to the January 6th committee about the violent threats they had received after Trump and Giuliani told lies about them?  Remember the plot to kidnap and kill Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer?

This week, the names of the grand jurors in Georgia who voted to indict Trump and 18 others on numerous charges pertaining to the attempt to override the vote and change the election results in 2020, were made public, as is dictated by Georgia law.  What happened?  From an article in NPR …

On a far-right website, where the QAnon conspiracy theory originated, an anonymous user on Tuesday shared a list of the 23 grand jurors with their supposed full names, ages and addresses. Amid a torrent of other posts speculating on the race and religion of the jurors, and rife with derogatory slurs, the implication was clear: This was a target list.

The United States was founded as a democratic republic, meaning that people have a right to voice their opinions and to try to bring about change through their vote.  It does not mean that people have a right to threaten or to do harm to others in order to get their way!  Those who would use threats and violence as a means to an end prove only that they are incapable of civil discourse, incapable of expressing their views without threatening everyone who disagrees with them.  This is a nation of 330 million people, not a grade school playground!

Sadly, some elected officials in the Republican Party seem to think that it’s okay for them to stir up the violence in their constituents, to encourage it and treat it as “normal”.  After the terrible violence of January 6th, some politicians deemed it “normal political discourse”.  The very people who ought to be doing everything in their power to calm the people, to discourage violence, are instead egging it on.  This is the behaviour I would expect in some third-world country … perhaps that’s what the formerly ‘united’ states are becoming.

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50 thoughts on “A “Civil” Society? I Have Doubts”

  1. 2024 will be the tipping point.
    If the Republicans win the Whitehouse the simmering could finally boil over
    If the Democrats win the Whitehouse a number of folk who voted that way could feel the need to defend Democracy, hard ball (loose gun laws)
    Here’s a song from 1969 by King Crimson. It’s long on instrumental, the punch of the lyrics are in the opening sections:

    Liked by 1 person

  2. how come there was no outrage, when, in 2016, madona publicly said “I have thought aobut blowing up the whitehouse?”
    I agree with you that threatening people under any circumstances, especially those which involve political differences, is reprehensible and demonstrates a lack of moral character at best but what aobut all the people who threatened trump supporters or even the man himself. Should they also be called out for their behavior? What happened to the idea of an equal society? Does it really exist or is it really only for a select few?
    Think aobut it carefully.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I can only speak for myself, but I didn’t know Madonna had said that, for she is of no importance to me and I don’t keep up with what she … or any other actor/musician says on a daily basis.

      I don’t support any form of violence, you should know me that well by now. I don’t think you’ll find threats against Trump or his supporters beyond an occasional one here or there … there isn’t widespread violence against the maga crowd as there is against those who are against his role in politics.

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  3. Here is another foreign example, Jill

    BERLIN — Maximilian Krah, the newly elected top candidate of the far-right Alternative for Germany for the European elections, doesn’t believe in watering down political messages to win centrist votes.

    Hailing from what analysts describe as the party’s ethno-nationalist wing, he has described Pride Month as “disgusting,” is a proponent of deporting immigrants and peppers his speech with allusions to white-supremacist conspiracy theories.

    “We have become clearer in what we what we want and what we think,” the 46-year-old rising star of the far right said of his party, known by its German acronym AfD. “We have more of the Trumpian style of communication.”

    Liked by 1 person

    • Yes, sadly they are everywhere! I hadn’t heard of this one, though … thanks for sharing it! I wonder what the world will look like ten years from now? I won’t be around to see it, and maybe that’s a good thing.

      Liked by 1 person

          • I had a profound feeling yesterday, not just with trump and the mess the world is in now, but in all the world’s long history, it’s been wars, killings, genocide, violence that has partially ruined all the good there is too.
            But at one time there seemed to be a gradual rise in the good becoming stronger. But was it really? I think of WWI and II. Brutal.

            But lately it seems our world civilization has taken a downward trend that seems to be in free fall. I had such a strong feeling of what could have been, but will never be. We (the world) could have had it all for all..a paradise for all.
            But it seems we simply can’t overcome our nature. Our brief time in celestial time has not been a success and I’m afraid will be very short lived.

            Liked by 1 person

            • Your thoughts are deeply profound, Mary, and quite similar to my own thought patterns these days. Yes, for a time it seemed that perhaps humans were learning to live together in peace … we weren’t there yet, but it seemed we were headed in the right direction. Some days I ask myself … was it all an illusion? It seems there was so much racism and hatred oozing out of the woodwork in 2008 when we elected our first Black president, and then when we elected an unqualified clown in 2016, the racial hate ratcheted up like a rocket taking off into outer space! Where did it all come from? Had people been hiding their true feelings all this time? I don’t have any answers, just lots of questions and some speculation, but … I haven’t completely given up hope yet that with the right voices making themselves heard, we can start to turn around yet again. Don’t give up hope. I know it’s hard … I’m depressed more often than not … but if we give up, then we cannot be part of the solution as we’d like to. Hugs, my friend.

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  4. Jill, what these folks will soon realize is their threats have to be taken seriously. Down in Georgia, the threats toward grand jury members who dared to indict the former president, is being taken seriously.

    Putting it simply, the Trump led GOP cannot be the party of law and order it has conveyed when it tolerates thug like behavior and lying, as in evidence by its leader and some of his followers.

    Keith

    Liked by 1 person

    • Indeed, I hear the FBI is now investigating the threats against the members of the Georgia grand jury. I do think the idea that the Republican Party is the party of ‘law and order’ jumped ship long ago. It still amazes me that the GOP is willing to throw it all away and bend to the demands of one ‘man’.

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  5. Trump could die tomorrow and this rot would still be entrenched in our country. It has gone beyond just him. And read about Argentina and their new trump like rising star calling to make Argentina Great Again and thinks climate change is a liberal hoax. And look at some of the third world countries with constant genocide and mayhem.

    But this is becoming global; this effort for total control and such hatred and bigotry. As they say, dark forces are gathering including climate change. I fear for the world, but at the same time maybe it’s time for humans to depart and leave the earth to heal and return to the paradise it once was.

    Liked by 2 people

    • I quite often wish for his death, but I also know that it would open a whole new can of conspiracy theories and even more distrust and divisiveness. Yes, there are a number of countries with constant chaos, but there was a time the U.S. was above that. A time when we worked our problems out without violence. I fear that time has passed.

      I have said more than once that I believe humans, in all their greed and arrogance, will extinct themselves, quite probably by the end of this century. And if they do, it will be the best thing for all other species, for as you say, the earth will heal itself over time, and the species that were here long before humans can once again live safely.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. If a country is divided by extreme opinons, skin colour, and religion, it can still manage to run smoothly if everyone agrees to disagree and gets on with their lives.
    However, when you add things into the mix, say divisive and ignorant politicians like MTG, then have an ex-President stirring the pot with nonsense and hatred, it becomes fragile, to say the least
    Then we have to consider that you are talking about America, a country where almost 400,000,000 guns are owned by private individuals. That adds another dimension to everything.
    Jury members are not named in the UK, and should be able to have privacy wherever they live.
    Best wishes, Pete.

    Liked by 3 people

    • It seems that humans are incapable of agreeing to disagree and getting on with their lives. Yes, the politicians and media do add to the mix, encourage the hatred and fear, but the human species is, at its core, flawed. I blame religion for a large part of it, for if a religion teaches, for example, that it is a ‘sin’ for a woman to have an abortion, then people seem to think it’s their duty to stone the poor woman to death. Never mind that my decision doesn’t affect them one whit, they just think it’s their duty to their deity to condemn me.

      And yes, the gun culture does absolutely add another element to the problem … anywhere you go, you must assume that anyone you see has a gun in his belt or boot. I just laugh when I hear someone refer to this country as “great” … nothing great about it these days. Nothing.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. So far the Conservatives have not been too successful in dividing Canadians, but they are trying. I hope you don’t mind, but I told Poliev he would do better going to join the GOP. (He might actually help you. He is despicable to look at. He makes a gorilla look cute!) My apologies to all Gorillas, I am sure their males all look good to their females. Poliev might look good to a crocodile — as dinner!

    Liked by 1 person

      • Po.iev is the current leader of the national Conservative Party, and I would say he is a weasel ut that would be demeabing to weasels. He is a Trump-wannabe, but hevcannot ome close — I hope!

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          • Kenney was provincial. Poliev is federal, so if elected with a majority he would become Prime Minister. But pretty much all Conservatives are Trump wanna-bees these days. Divide! Divide! Divide!
            I got a text message the other day from the Conservstive Party – federal. They asked if I supported Poliev, Yes or No. My answer was not one word long, and it contained some explicit expletives. I told them what I thought of Poliev, and what he could fo with himself.
            They did not csll back — yet! I hope they do!

            Liked by 1 person

            • Prime minister??? He could replace Trudeau? NO!!! Just NO! Yes, it seems to be a common theme among many western nations these days … “divide and conquer”.

              While I probably would have responded to that text in much the same way you did, the better way might have been to simply respond with a “no”, for they probably wrote you off as a radical and likely won’t call you now. Try writing a ‘letter to the editor’ of your newspaper … that might get you heard!

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              • Our town newspaper is a Conservative rag. But I wasn’t wanting to be heard, I was trying to make sure they never text me again… Along with giving them a piece of my mind! My name is jot on any voter list. They should be respecting my privacy.

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                • Your name may not be on a voter roll, but you can bet it’s on plenty of other lists … we all are! Marketing lists, political lists, charity lists … they buy and sell our names, addresses, phone numbers, email, etc. ‘Tis why I have my phone set to reject all calls except for the few people on my contact list, and use two Spam filters for my email. There is NO respect for our privacy in this, the “information age”.

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                  • I can’t do that becsuse I cannot anticipate what healthcare people might need to contact us. Speaking of heslthcare, G and I going for
                    a pre-op consult for her knee replacement in, early Dept. We don’t have a surgery date yet, but at least we have a consult. Anothed hurdle vleared. Only took 2 years from the time our GP sent her name up the line. Covid put surgeons so far behind we mibht never cstch up!

                    Liked by 1 person

                    • Well, even though a caller cannot get their call through to me, they are given the opportunity to leave a message, so if medical people or anyone important really has some need to speak to me, they’ll leave a message.

                      Oh, poor Gail!!! But, hopefully she’ll be up and running again once the surgery is done and she’s fully healed. Give her my love!

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    • Sigh. What is wrong with people today, my friend??? It’s as if half the people have been given some experimental drug to see how selfish, greedy, and violent they can become. At this rate, the U.S. will not have any claim to democracy after 2025 if the Republicans have their way. Today, we are only about 1/2 of a democratic nation.

      Liked by 1 person

  11. Pingback: A “CIVIL” SOCIETY? I HAVE DOUBTS | Ned Hamson's Second Line View of the News

  12. To threaten people with violence or murder for all kinds of reasons is not civil but barbarian. That’s what one would expect from ISIS or Taliban or such like. American extremists and Christian fundamentalists behave exactly the same.
    But, also this is spreading all over the globe right now.

    Liked by 3 people

    • They are terrorists every bit as much as ISIS or the Taliban. They are turning this nation into something I don’t even want to think about. And I expect it to get worse over the course of the next 15 months … I can’t even imagine what is going to happen in November 2024. Yes, it is spreading … but other nations haven’t gone completely off the rails as we have here. Sigh.

      Liked by 1 person

  14. If the Republicans had stood up to Donald Trump–then or now–we would not be in this volatile situation. The silence of those who–we keep hearing–say privately how strongly they oppose him while he drags their party toward fascism is despicable and incomprehensible to me.

    Liked by 4 people

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